NRA trains members to attack enemies without mercy

cjYet cj has another thread which would have us all believe that HUNTING is what the assault rifle is best used for. Cant have it both ways cj. OCCOM, you fell into his aura of logic. Of course 2A says nothing about hunting. NOR DOES IT SAY that "In order to have a well regulated militia the rights of the citizenry to own rapid fire full auto weapons shall not be infringed"

You can own full autos , but you do need extra certification. They are considered a "dangerous weapon" and many are showing up in the hands of the thugs and killers (we just had a little girl sprayed with Tech fire last evening in LANCASTER Pa). ALl the "scary black" weapons that cj says are hunting weapons can all be retroed to be fired on full auto and cj knows it. Hes a shill for the NRA whose motto should be "WE DONT CARE WHO GETS KILLED WITH OUR WEAPONS". They dont giv a **** about the rights of people to live unafraid, they only want everything to be supportive of their ability to own any damn piece of hardware that is. This isnt Somalia, where 13 years old all coked up, and with AK 47's go around in gangs and kill each other.

The disconnect is that, the very reasons that guys like cj dont wanna lose "assault rifle" ownership, arent the same reasons that people buy em.

If the ACLU is so protective of our rights, why are they constantly in court battling 2A? Perhaps guns deny the abilities/rights? of their interests to commit crimes against those who own them?

Again, 2A ain't about hunting....

F-man is totally missing the point. Dude, how do you feel about crossbows? Longbows? Recurves and compounds? Do you think it makes a difference which one you "bowhunt" with?

The NRA isn't about hunting either. But a majority of NRA members hunt.

Yes, and consequently they defended the first amendment which was precisely my point. Watch:
KKK- nutcases
CJ and his ilk- nutcases
Larry Flint and his ilk- nutcases.

What do they have in common? They collectively serve to defend the United States Constitution by arguing the extremes that keep the flag from being pulled over the wrong goal in the tug-of-war.

If I've been at all unclear, let me state for the record that I find most of the disgusting defenses carried out by the ACLU to be very much in my best interest and I respect them very much accordingly.

Farmerman; I hear you, but you're wrong. Guns don't kill people, people do. I have not infrequently found myself feeling exactly as you do, but each time I research it; I'm faced with the statistical fact that guns prevent more crime than they cause. A Tech 9 in the hands of my retired father, means one less potential victim to a crime. No doubt; certain criminal elements will develop a preference for this gun or that; but denying the law abiding citizen equal weaponry will not change this.

cj, IM trying to keep you consistant. They dont make automatic crossbows . Try to stay consistant between the two current threads that are on (or tangential) to hunting with assault weapons.

I know waht 2A says , as does everyone else. However, You never seem to argue it when you asking for our support for your "assaulted hunting rights" and "rights to use assault weapons to hunt". You only dropped it in immediately following O Bill.

I've never gone hunting and I doubt I ever will. I can imagine that there is a thrill to the hunt, but I think that thrill would quickly turn to a sick feeling when I came upon the carcass of my quarry.

I do like to fish though and I have no problem killing, gutting, cooking and eating my catch, so I try not to judge hunters.

That is to say hunters, not blood thirsty killers.

It just seems that unless success is less than certain, and requires some degree of skill and/or stamina it can't be considered sport. Using automatic weapons to kill animals is slaughter not hunting, and should be prohibited by law if the so-called hunter doesn't have the character to self-restrict.

I suppose running over a deer with an automatic is slaughter, but in a manual it would be OK.

OK....

Hunting with what? Scary looking guns? Is that what you meant? You've bought into the antis lie.

What about scary looking crossbows? There's an awful lot of old school bow hunters who hate them. Shooting themselves in the foot, they are. It's time to circle the wagons and pull out whatever weapons we have, from rocks to howizters. No time to waste arguing semantics. Seriously - look what has been voted in to congress!!!

To be clear on my position here, I am a gun owner. I own a handgun (Glock 19), a shotgun (Mossberg 500), and a rifle (Bushmaster AR15).

I agree with Occum Bill (I can't believe I've said that, as we disagree on almost everything else politically), that the statistics show that guns in the hands of non-criminals reduce crime in almost every situation.

Murder, death, slaughter, etc has been written in history long before guns were even invented. Should we also outlaw knives, hammers, automobiles, beer, etc.

People kill people. If they didn't have a gun, they'd use a knife. If they didn't have a knife, they'd use a baseball bat. If they didn't........ well you get the idea.

Stop blaming the weapon and blame the person.

Your thoughts mimic mine Finn, save I'm not sure you realize the "automatics" in question are actually semi-automatics... meaning one trigger pull; one shot. The impact of a 30.6 is much worse than an AK-47 and makes an AR15 look like a joke.

Just for fun; you can see Cjhsa hunting rabbits here

(I stuck watching a bunch of funny clips when I found that )

I'm not familiar, at all, with firearms. I have assumed, perhaps erroneously, that if a committed hunter and firearms expert believes they represent overkill, they do.

I have far less uncertainty however about the fact that the NRA's reaction to this individual's comments represented political overkill. Criticizing the use of these weapons in hunting is hardly the same as challenging anyone's right to own them. It's one of the inherent problems in having highly funded and politically powerful single issue advocacy.

Like I said; I don't hunt either, for the same reason as you... but growing up in small town Wisconsin you learn to shoot and are surrounded by avid hunters. 30.06 is a common "deer rifle". The one pictured below is not uncommon and is semi-automatic.



CJ's right about the assault weapon only looking scarier. Take the AK-47 which is considered THE terrorist weapon.



Now, if you were to take an AK-47 in semi-automatic form, and substitute a 4 round clip; you would essentially have matching weapons. The difference would be; the "deer rifle" would have greater stopping power and accuracy. It is a much more powerful weapon... just not as scary looking.

If you've got 10 minutes; I found a very educational video while grabbing the above pics. here

No Holds Barred lyrics- Mack Daddy- Sir Mix-a-lot


"The police, urge people, to keep their guns locked up and unloaded"
"Congress today, seems on the verge of approving gun control"

[Verse One: Sir Mix-A-Lot]
It's, time to fight back cause the new jack black macks
ain't did **** about that, whack, jackin
And I'm packin
Cause I'm down for the bank I'm stackin
And in a straight up brawl I'll mall alla y'all
Ya try to crawl for Tylenol and I install
big fists in your face, the blow is well placed
Spray 'em with mace in case mace is his taste
Throw up the dogs, the competition is fogged
Cause he was smokin the yang, iced and drink the 8-ball
Drunk, stumblin, threw him with the lean
I sweep him, then attack the spleen
Play the congas on his backbone
He's funk baritone until I twisted his dome
Creep up on my house and try to roll me up?
And got STUCK IN THE GUT with a black, glock
And he starts to wobble
Self-defense is what I'm claimin, let's squabble
I pick up a pipe to take plenty of quick swipes
One grazed his dome and sliced his eye whites
I don't give a DAMN bout a stupid ass burgular
It's all circular
The dope dealer sells dope to the dope smoker
The smoker breaks in and tries to choke ya
But I ain't the one to run from ya son
This is MY HOUSE, and it's FULLA GUNS!
I'm down for mine and my choke is nice and hard
When you jack the boss there ain't no holds barred!

No holds barred
No holds barred
No holds barred

[Verse Two: Sir Mix-A-Lot]
I'm crushin most hoods like Katie-dids(?)
I'm pleadin guilty for the damage I did
This ain't about random violence
The (?) crept into my house, F*CK SILENCE
Now most punks wanna run for the stun gun
F*ck a stun gun, I got the big one
Forty-four mag, automatic, CHROME
Mercury-tipped bullets, melt the dome
It's the 1990's, and crack is
talkin to the criminals, ever so subliminal
Some crackhead wants Mix-A-Lot dead
A jack move instead, another fool bled
I can't cry cause my tears are nearly froze
My interior's cold, it posess my soul
I'm on the paranoid tip
And each of my socks got a clip!
When my house got robbed, a top notch job
Cops laughed while my mom just sobbed
9-1-1 only works for the rich ones
So I collect GUNS!
So step right through if you're down for the wrong move
Most crews are moved by my twelve gauge BOOM!
How can I love when I gotta
protect my neck from a punk suspect?
Gun control - I ain't wit it
They banned the AK and any fool can STILL get it
The innocent have been beaten, bruised and scarred
But for this citizen, there ain't no holds barred

"It is an absolute infringement on my second amendment rights"
No holds barred
"When is this attack on gun owners going to end?"
No holds barred
"Education, versus restriction"

[Verse Three: Sir Mix-A-Lot]
Hypothetical situation
Gun control starts sweepin the nation
Now you got a bunch of unarmed innocent victims
Gettin F*CKED by the system
Sittin at home with a butter knife, huh
Any fool could rape your wife
So what's up when the criminals can't be stopped?
The only one with guns are the COPS
But it's hard for a brother to trust police
Huh, so the **** don't cease
So I go downtown to buy a hot gun
I hated criminals, and now I'm one
Because I bought a gat to protect my house
The cops wanna bust me out?
So it's illegal to protect yourself?
Hell, you either get killed, or you in jail
So when you vote
You better think about what I just wrote
And F*CK writin a note to yo' Congressman!
You got the fool hired
Now help get the fool fired
A scary scenario
And I put it in your stereo
So when a fool tries to run up on my car
R.I.P., no holds barred

No holds barred

No holds barred

"They take aim, at the law abiding citizen, instead of the criminal"
{*applause*]

OBILL. Thats not my point, never ws. My point was that cj has another thread about Scary Black Weapons--all semis of course. Yet I asked him for the names of the weapons shown and hes ignored me . I wanted to see whether there was not a conversion kit and a 30 shot clip available for each of these guns. In most cases, if theyre gas or recoil operated, theres a kit to turn them into full autos.

Your assertion that such weapons save more lives needs backup with evidence. Pistols are by far still the most used weapon in self defense as well as crime.

The NRA, in its mindless zeal to promote any kind of gun, expresses its true belief in the valuelessness of our kids lives by standing in the way of any legislature that attempts to address gun crime. They make it a Constitutional issue (but screw the lives of people lost as collateral victims) and they say that they really feel that semis that look like assault autos (and which can be converted to autos) are "hunting" weapons. Thats utter bullshit. As I said on a nother thread="who benefits by continuing the Utter disregard for human life that the NRA seems to promote"?, and please dont line me up as a "bleeding heart", Im an owner of a sizable arsenal and Ive converted a few guns to auto . There is a sense of responsibility that we as gun owners must assume.

1The NRA does NOT represent me, in fact, my goals are about as diametrically opposed to the NRA's issue of gun ownershipas can be

2Our legislators are pretty much in the pocket of the gun lobby so that 'token' legislation that cj occasionally burps up to scare me and others is pretty much a non issue since the legislators will never carry out the acts of informed leadership that we say that weve hired them on.

3The NRA is even against the BRady Bill, which although imperfect, is held up in derision, as if to say, "See heres a Bill that doesnt do anything to stop the flow of illegal guns" The NRA has been consistantly against any legislation that attempts to put some sanity into our cultural obsession with guns .

My favorite part of this long unending debate

(hmmm, when did Americans start debating the ownership and use of guns? Tombstone? Wichita? Chicago 1931?)

is when the phrase "Guns don't kill people, people do" is paraded out. I always ask at that point if there is any way we can have information on who those people are before the fact of the killing? Conservatives are against any interpretation of the Constitution which finds a right to privacy in relation to a woman's right to choose abortion, but quickly find one if the authorities would like to know who in their community has twenty-seven automatic rifles in their basement.

I've been to town meetings where a guy defending a particular position literally had flecks of foam forming on the corners of his mouths as he shouted his objections at the City Council Members. (It was about a fence. ) I remember thinking "This guy is really crazy." but he is also the kind who when the TV crews interview the neighbors after he shoots three people and the huge cache of ammo and weapons is found is described as "Quiet, kept to himself mostly, and, except for an incident last fall when he broke out the windows of his wife's car, just one of the guys."

Joe(the wife never called it in)Nation

You guys ever been to Kennesaw, Georgia? :wink:

Heck if I know what all those guns are called - if I tried, I'd probably make a mistake and never hear the end of it.

I also don't get where I said I think it would be a good idea for Joe Hunter to take a full auto into the woods. Did I? Someone with a L3FFL probably isn't gonna either. You might find mix-a-lot hunting cats with a full-auto Glock 20 though.

But should no American be able to own them? Should I be criminalized for the 16-gauge semi-auto shotgun my Dad gave me for Christmas 30 years ago? Someone will have to pry it out of my hands if it happens.

Speaking of "huge caches of ammo", there was a Chicago Bear that got busted for "illegal" weapons in Illinois. Not only would they not be illegal or require registration in any surrounding state, but even the NFL announcers went on and on about how he had "over 500 rounds of ammunition".

Cripe, I buy .22 in 500-round bricks and usually buy two or more at a time. Shotgun shells come in boxes of 25 and cost less than $10, I often buy four at a time. Rifle cartridges are 20 to the box and are $15-$20 or so, unless you have something really special. My old deer rifle is hard to find ammo for, so when I find it, I buy all they have.

Cabelas sells bulk ammo in boxes of 1000 over the Internet.

So sue me.