Republican donor charged with financing,supporting terrorism

Most of the senseless acts of violence we read about are committed by muslim extremists, yet there is no widespread condemnation of these acts by the muslim community. Why are there not hundreds or thousands of muslin leaders condemning these acts? I know some have condemned these terrorist acts, but their voices are few and far between.

Revel, I would ask a simple question. Who is responsible for the negative view of Muslims that according to your article is held by so many in the west? I would submit the responsibility lies with Muslims themselves. Most of the senseless acts of violence we read about are committed by muslim extremists, yet there is no widespread condemnation of these acts by the muslim community. Why are there not hundreds or thousands of muslin leaders condemning these acts?

Revel, I would ask a simple question. Who is responsible for the negative view of Muslims that according to your article is held by so many in the west? I would submit the responsibility lies with Muslims themselves. Most of the senseless acts of violence we read about are committed by muslim extremists, yet there is no widespread condemnation of these acts by the muslim community. Why are there not hundreds or thousands of muslin leaders condemning these acts? I know some have condemned these terrorist acts, but their voices are few and far between.

If Muslims wish to change the west's views on them and their religion, then I think the onus is on them to begin speaking out en masse against those who use violence against innocent victims in the name of Islam. Unless of course, they see that violence as perfectly acceptable according to the Koran. In which case, isn't the west's view of Muslims justified?

Freeduck, to answer your question, I would only know it if indeed it were reported. The fact that little condemnation by Muslim leaders is reported leads me to believe either there is little of it being spoken or the press is choosing not to report it, which might lead one to think the press is pro-terrorism. I tend to discount that notion, which leads me to think there are very few Muslim leaders condemning the actions of their fellow Muslims.

And it could well be that they fear for their lives if they do speak out. Which in my opinion says a whole lot about their faith.

Cant you just imagine the response from A2K's conservatives if this had been a Democratic donor?

GOP donor hit with terror charges

Just one conservative republican's opinion, but it sure shoots a hole in the point you intended to make about us, don't it?

[..] there is no widespread condemnation of these acts by the muslim community. [..]

If Muslims wish to change the west's views on them and their religion, then I think the onus is on them to begin speaking out en masse against those who use violence against innocent victims in the name of Islam.

The fact that little condemnation by Muslim leaders is reported leads me to believe either there is little of it being spoken or the press is choosing not to report it, which might lead one to think the press is pro-terrorism. I tend to discount that notion, which leads me to think there are very few Muslim leaders condemning the actions of their fellow Muslims.

What are these extremists doing within Islam if its a religion of peace and tolerance? Why are they not driven out, told they are not following the will of the Prophet...that they are positively un-Islamic

"Jihad", what is usually translated as "holy war", does not actually have the equation with calling people to murderously immolate themselves and others, however. Of course there are extremist preachers who do make it about that - but then you're back exactly to my statement that it's not "the muslims" that pose the danger, but specific extremist groups among them. In "mainstream" Islam, as in mainstream Hinduism etc, the concept of religious murder as a shortcut to heaven is not accepted, or not accepted anymore. That's how there came to be a bunch of fatwas proclaimed by mainstream clergy against those who did do the exact thing you're talking about - suicide bombers of the London type (here's some examples and here's another one).

There you go, Finn........some fatwas for you.

http://wikiproxy.whitelabel.org/index.php?url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4694441.stm

Thank you Lord, thats one: UK Muslims issue bombings fatwa

Here's a bunch more:

Spanish Muslims issue Bin Ladin fatwa

Quote:

Sunday 13 March 2005

Spain's leading Islamic body has issued a religious order declaring Usama bin Ladin to have forsaken Islam by backing attacks such as the Madrid train bombings a year ago.

The Islamic Commission of Spain timed its fatwa on Friday to coincide with the first anniversary of the attacks, which killed 191 people and were claimed in the name of al-Qaida in Europe. [..]

"We declare ... that Usama bin Ladin and his al-Qaida organisation, responsible for the horrendous crimes against innocent people who were despicably murdered in the 11 March terrorist attack in Madrid, are outside the parameters of Islam," the commission said.

RUSSIAN MUSLIM LEADER CALLS AFGHAN ULAMAS TO EXTRADITE BIN LADEN

Quote:

2001-09-20

The Afghan ulamas ought to have long ago expelled Osama bin Laden from the country, Talgat Tadjuddin, High Mufti of the Russian Muslims, said to newsmen.

A man who advises to kill cannot be God's counsellor, however much he may quote the Koran, and he will bring nothing but evil to the country which gives him shelter, stressed the Mufti as he called to "punish evil".

Prominent Muslim Cleric Denounces bin Laden

Quote:

Thursday, Oct. 18, 2001
ISLAMABAD, Pakistan - A prominent Muslim cleric today denounced terrorist mastermind Osama bin Laden and urged Afghanistan's Taliban rulers not to risk thousands of lives for him.

"Bin Laden is not a prophet that we should put thousands of lives at risk for," said Tahirul Qadri, who heads the Pakistani Awami Tehrik Party.

Qadri, who has thousands of followers in Pakistan and abroad, also criticized the Taliban for sheltering bin Laden and urged the Muslims to "see the difference between jihad and acts of terrorism."

[..] "Bombing embassies or destroying non-military installations like the World Trade Center is no jihad," Qadri said, and "those who launched the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks not only killed thousands of innocent people in the United States but also put the lives of millions of Muslims across the world at risk."

[..] the Taliban had no justification for continuing to protect bin Laden. Why protect him? Is he a saint or a prophet? He is a man who himself has admitted arranging car-bomb attacks on U.S. embassies. He is no saint."

A Top Sunni Cleric on the Use, and Misuse, of Islam

Quote:

Mohammed Sayed Tantawi, the grand imam of Egypt's al-Azhar mosque and the most widely respected and influential moral voice for Sunni Islam [..] scoffed when I read him the 1998 call to arms that bin Laden called his fatwa: "We . . . with God's help . . . call on every Muslim who believes in God and wishes to be rewarded to comply with God's order to kill Americans and plunder their money."

"Osama bin Laden is no specialist in religious affairs," the grand imam quipped, to the delight of the imams seated to his left. And then he added: "Islamic law banishes anyone who issues an untrue fatwa." About the references in the hijackers' documents that they were martyrs and would achieve paradise, Tantawi was equally contemptuous. "They are not martyrs but aggressors," he said. "They will not achieve paradise, but will receive severe punishment for their aggression." In Islam, he noted, there is an exact equivalent of Moses's commandant against killing. "Whoever shall kill a man or a believer without right," said the grand imam, "the punishment is hell forever. Allah will be angry with himand give him a great punishment." Especially ugly, Tantawi said, is the criminal who murders by surprise, "from the back," because "it is against morality and good honor."

Bin Laden Stirs Struggle on Meaning of Jihad

Quote:

Qaradawi Rejects Al-Qaeda's Killing of Innocents

Quote:

Prominent Muslim scholar Dr. Youssef Al-Qaradawi has condemned Al-Qaeda for their fuel tanker suicide bombing of a centuries-old Jewish synagogue on the Tunisian island of Djerba in April 2002.

[..] Dr. Al Qaradawi said that in Islam it is not permissible to attack places of worship such as churches and synagogues or attack men of religion, even in a state of war.

"Civilians, such as the German tourists, should not be killed, or kept as hostages. Jews, not in conflict with Muslims, must not be killed either. Anyone who commits these crimes is punishable by Islamic Sharia and have committed the sin of killing a soul which God has prohibited to kill and of spreading corruption on earth," said Dr. Al Qaradawi.

GRAND IMAM OF EGYPT DENOUNCES TERRORISM

Quote:

House of Representatives
October 31, 2001

Mr. [JOSEPH] PITTS [Republican of Pennsylvania]: [..]

Just a few days ago, the Grand Imam of Al-Azhar, the highest and most respected Islamic authority in the world, who resides in Egypt, also made this clear. The Grand Imam said that the Koran specifically forbids the kinds of things the Taliban and al-Qaida are guilty of. He said the jihad Usama bin Laden has called for against America is invalid and not binding on Muslims. He said that "Islam rejects all of these acts." He called terrorism un-Islamic. In fact, he says, "Killing innocent civilians is a horrific, hideous act that no religion can approve." [..]

Want more? See this handy overview:

Muslims Condemn Terrorist Attacks

Last week I linked in a scope of fatwas and other Muslim clerical condemnations of terror.

Now, add another one. This is translated from the Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung. I´m sure (or perhaps I´m not...) that there is enough coverage in US media as well? [..]

Quote:

American Fatwa against Terrorism

WASHINGTON. 29 July. A council of 18 prestigious sunnite and shiite jurists and scientists from the US and Canada on Thursday night published an Islamic legal judgement (Fatwa), in which every form of terrorism and the use of violence against civilians is condemned. Muslim jurists and associations in Europe have recently published similar fatwas.

The fatwa, which was presented at a press conference in Washington by the President of the North-American islamic law council (Fiqh Council), Muzammil Siddiqi, and will be read out during the important Friday prayer in many mosques in North-America, amongst other things says: "Every act of terrorism that targets civilians is forbidden in Islam. It is forbidden to a Muslim to involve himself with or support persons or groups that commit terror attacks or acts of violence." Whoever attacks the life and property of civilians through suicide attacks or other forms of violence "is a criminal and not a martyr". Moreover, the Fatwa lays down that "it is the religious and civic duty of a Muslim to cooperate with the authorities to protect the lives of civilians".

The fatwa is supported by the main Muslim organisations in North-America. Furthermore, the Council of American-Islamic Relations [the same that has been vilified by American conservatives-nimh] has started a campaign with radio and TV messages under the title "Not in the name of Islam", in which it is confirmed that Islam forbids terrorism. Whoever commits such acts of violence in the name of Islam, betrays his religion, the messages state. [..]

CoastalRat wrote:

Just one conservative republican's opinion, but it sure shoots a hole in the point you intended to make about us, don't it?

Nah, hardly.

I mean, kudos for being reasonable about it, but seriously: how do you think the conservatives on a2k here would respond, overall, to a story like this about a terrorist financier having donated to the Democrats?

Not to mention if the guy was purportedly a National Democratic Senatorial Committee "Inner Circle Member for Life", a member of the NDCC's "White House Business Advisory Committee" and the NDCC's New York state businessman of the year?

Seriously, how do you think Baldimo or Okie or Mysteryman or McGentrix or blabla et cetera would roll with that?