Will this be charged a hate crime?

CoastalRat wrote:

And this is why hate crime bills are the most stupid, idiotic laws on the books today. You can very seldom determine with any certainty whether someone did something out of hate for a group.

I would have to agree that with what is being reported, this crime was probably not a hate crime in the truest definition. But at the same time, a case could be made that after this religious discussion, the man was so filled with hate for Christians that he decided to run a few of them down and thus rid society of them. I mean, after all, isn't that what many of his fellow Muslims do on a regular basis, simply because others believe differently? By a simple definition, he hated these people because of their beliefs and decided to try to kill them. Sounds like hate to me.

And this is why I think any and all hate crime laws are stupid. I also have an opinion about those who support these laws, but I'll keep that one to myself in order to maintain a civil conversation.

How do you know the students were Christians? They could have been Jewish, atheist or even Sunni Muslim for all you know. It only sounds like hate because you are making up facts that don't exist.

Tennessee hate laws require they be selected as a victim for belonging to a group. The confrontation prior to the attack pretty much negates any selection of the victimes based solely on religion.

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And Harry knows this how? He too was in the cab? After all, that is the only way Harry would know for sure. And since I am pretty sure cab drivers don't drive with a second cab driver in the car, I would discount Harry's statement without some other evidence.

Regardless of the direction of the "discussion", running them over was not the answer. And it is funny how you seem to be pushing the blame for this cabdriver's actions on to the victims. Or at least you seem to be minimizing the cabbie's actions because of the discussion. Seems a bit strange that you would do so.

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CoastalRat wrote:

One other request, OE. If you are going to put quotes around something, said quotes indicating that I wrote it, please quote me accurately. The quoted section you noted within your comment, "rid society of Christians on a regular basis", was never written by me and totally changes the what I in fact did write.

I can agree with the quotes but I don't think it changes at all what you said.

"..isn't that what many of his fellow muslims do on a regular basis.." The "that" can only logically refer to the act you referenced in the previous sentence, "run a few down and thus rid society of them." "Them" obviously referst to Christians earlier in the sentence. Since there aren't many instances of running people down by muslims that leaves "rid society of them" as the "that" you are referring to muslims doing.

Isn't that (ridding society of Christians) on a regular basis is a fair reading of what you said and doesn't change the meaning of what you wrote.

That may not have been your intent but that is the only logical way to read what was written.

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CoastalRat wrote:

And Harry knows this how? He too was in the cab? After all, that is the only way Harry would know for sure. And since I am pretty sure cab drivers don't drive with a second cab driver in the car, I would discount Harry's statement without some other evidence.

Regardless of the direction of the "discussion", running them over was not the answer. And it is funny how you seem to be pushing the blame for this cabdriver's actions on to the victims. Or at least you seem to be minimizing the cabbie's actions because of the discussion. Seems a bit strange that you would do so.

I've neither written nor mentioned that Harry was in the cab.
Nor do I remember that such was mentioned in any of the reports.

I only posted:

Quote:

Actally, locals and co-cabdrivers discuss that event a bit differently, when you look at the press reports ...

And I still suppose that opinions by locals are as valuable as those by co-workers as these here.

But you may think differently and hold your opinion above all.

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parados wrote:

How do you know the students were Christians? They could have been Jewish, atheist or even Sunni Muslim for all you know. It only sounds like hate because you are making up facts that don't exist.

Tennessee hate laws require they be selected as a victim for belonging to a group. The confrontation prior to the attack pretty much negates any selection of the victimes based solely on religion.

Did you miss the part where I said I don't think this does fall under the definition of a hate crime? Because I really don't think it does. It matters little to me why the cab driver tried to run them over, or whether they were Christians, Jews, atheist or whatever. My point is that any hate law is an idiotic law for just the reason that this post was started. It is difficult to determine in most cases, what was going through the criminal's mind when he did what he did. When the people left his cab, did the driver think to himself, "Gosh, I hate them dang blasted (Christians, atheists, Jews, whatever). I think I'm gonna kill me a few." If he did, then an argument can be made for a hate crime. Or did he just say, "I'm so mad at them for questioning me that I'm gonna teach them a lesson." No hate crime there, just one idiot who deserves to be locked away.

With hate crime laws, in many cases, we are asking the courts to read a person's mind, and I don't like that at all. Murder is murder, beating someone is beating someone. Each should be equally punished, regardless of whether it was done out of "hate" or just because.

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parados wrote:

CoastalRat wrote:
One other request, OE. If you are going to put quotes around something, said quotes indicating that I wrote it, please quote me accurately. The quoted section you noted within your comment, "rid society of Christians on a regular basis", was never written by me and totally changes the what I in fact did write.

I can agree with the quotes but I don't think it changes at all what you said.

"..isn't that what many of his fellow muslims do on a regular basis.." The "that" can only logically refer to the act you referenced in the previous sentence, "run a few down and thus rid society of them." "Them" obviously referst to Christians earlier in the sentence. Since there aren't many instances of running people down by muslims that leaves "rid society of them" as the "that" you are referring to muslims doing.

Isn't that (ridding society of Christians) on a regular basis is a fair reading of what you said and doesn't change the meaning of what you wrote.

That may not have been your intent but that is the only logical way to read what was written.

I can understand where a person can misunderstand what I am saying because I did not express myself as well as I could have. And I have no problem with someone questioning me on that. I would simply prefer someone not put what they think I wrote in quotes, but rather only what I actually wrote. Just a pet peeve of mine.

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Walter Hinteler wrote:

But you may think differently and hold your opinion above all.

Walter, my opinion carries little weight in the big scheme of things. And I am quite sure that at times my opinion has been wrong. And it could be that I missed the gist of what you were trying to say. But you quoted a cab driver as indicating that the passengers were trying to convince the other driver to think like them religiously, when in fact I don't see how this other cabbie would know. Of course, maybe it has been reported in the papers that this was the case (something I have not read, but I have not followed this all that closely either and may have missed that.)

All I was asking was how this other cabbie knew what direction the discussion took? Or was it simply a friendly discussion of beliefs? And I posed as one possibility that existed that would explain how Harry knew was to have been in the cab, which was not the case. I did not mean to imply that you said he was in the cab. Sorry if it seemed I did.

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It's Baldimo's thread and he certainly will update the reports.

I only followed the various printed discussions in the local papers - they've asked (that's The Commercial Appeal as well as The Tennessenean) locals about their opinion, especially cabdrivers.

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What I have learned from our culture of political correctness is - if you try to kill somebody, make sure you love them, otherwise you are in big trouble for a hate crime.

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The term "hate crime" is very similar to "assualt weapon". Neither one really exist, they are just terms invented by blowhard lawmakers that have taken a politically correct position and and trying to shove their agenda down everyone else's throat.

People just don't like each other period. They beat each other, shoot each other, lie, cheat and steal without much concern for person's skin color or sexual orientation. White against white crime is tops in the U.S., followed by black on black. Go figure.

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CoastalRat wrote:

OE, note that I said many Muslims. I am well aware of the dangers of characterizing an entire group of people based on the actions of a small number of them. Kinda like those who believe all Catholic priests are pedophiles because of the actions of a few. But just like the Catholic priests, it is the bad apples that get the press. And since I assume this guy reads about the escapades of other Muslims (the violent ones), it may well be that he saw it as perfectly reasonable to do what he did. Sorry if you misunderstood what I was getting at in my statement you quoted.

I noted that you said many Muslims. Or rather "many of his fellow Muslims" - kind of implying that he already belongs to a group of violent Muslims, ready to murder someone on the spot.

Mostly a problem with how you worded it, I hope. Just sounded too much like "Well, he's a Muslim, so nobody should be surprised if he wanted to kill somebody". I know that's not what you said, but anyways.

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Definately not my intended meaning OE. Thanks for giving me the benefit of the doubt. Laughing

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The fact that violent muslims have taken over Islam and want to kill everyone in the western world seems to be lost on folks here.

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CoastalRat wrote:

One other request, OE. If you are going to put quotes around something, said quotes indicating that I wrote it, please quote me accurately. The quoted section you noted within your comment, "rid society of Christians on a regular basis", was never written by me and totally changes the what I in fact did write.

I don't mind if someone throws something I wrote back in my face as long as I really wrote it. It just ticks me off a bit when someone puts something in quotes as if I actually wrote it when in fact I did not. Now you may have believed the thing you quoted was the gist of what I said, but please don't put it in quotes as if I really wrote it. Thanks.

And I apologize about that. I usually use the

Quote:

quote function

to quote somebody, and quotation marks to indicate that I wouldn't use these words. I should be more careful. I was trying to paraphrase what you said in two sentences here

CoastalRat wrote:

... the man was so filled with hate for Christians that he decided to run a few of them down and thus rid society of them. I mean, after all, isn't that what many of his fellow Muslims do on a regular basis...

... and get it into one sentence. My apologies if I misrepresented what you had said.

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No problem OE. I get a bit touchy when quotes are used to indicate that something was exactly what I said when it is rather a person's interpretation of what I said. I can try to better explain a misinterpreted comment. An exact quote is what it is and leaves me with only being able to back it up or say I was wrong, something I never am. :wink:

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cjhsa wrote:

The fact that violent muslims have taken over Islam and want to kill everyone in the western world seems to be lost on folks here.

I don't know from where you got those facts - are they taught by the Remnant Church? (Those two are members of this church.)

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I suppose in Germany, they now believe this event was caused by southern Baptists...

http://www.nyc-architecture.com/GON/gon001-Twin_Towers_Explode.jpg

You libs love to preach history and you can't remember something from five years ago. Islamic fascists hate you and want to kill you, if you aren't one of them. Try exploring reality for a change.

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Will this be charged a hate crime?

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