Atheism has the same logical flaws as religion

It is not inferior but it cant not be applied when working with abstract thought and beliefs and in an academic sense is outdated.

And assumption is the mother of all stuff ups i never said it was inferior is said there is no erason for it (perhaps I should of said here).

I don't like fundamentlaists but I would playing ther game to say that my belief is better then theres as that exactly what they think

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Hmmm
I'm not sure whether than was meant as a compliment or not....but anyway...thanks...i think...
Greg

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hehehe whatever aas i said for me this argument is futile but hey i got nothing better do so here i am. oh and i know my typing is terrible it's 'cos i been drinking absinthe at the mardi gras

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tagged_lyricist wrote:

what is truth?
who's truth?
your or mine or my neighbours?

Why is truth so important?
And wheres these absolutes?

I guess it all comes down to a few paradoxes. Are there no absolutes? << paradox

Is truth subjective? << paradox

Those are interesting discussions. But for practical purposes we have to work around them daily.

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Yes but this discussion is not based in reality it is about beliefs and not pratical purpses obviousl I dont support the idea that if you believe you can fly you can so go jump off that sky scraper cos what gravity?

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Come on JL, lighten up, it was a Lao Tzu parody! Laughing

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who's JL?

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truth
If you're referring to my statement, Greg, yes, it is decidedly a compliment.

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My my my . . .

I know that there is no Santa Claus, that there is no Easter Bunny, and that there are no gods nor goddesses because all are predicated upon transparently fallacious premises, without admitting of physical proof.

Frank, i referred to your pontification because you accused me of making a religion of atheism. That is preposterous, and an intellectual arrogance on your part--that is why i used the term pontification.

I do not proselytize atheism. I do not derive any moral or behavioral imperatives from atheism. I do not assert that atheists are better, nor better off, than those who are not atheist. I do not propose that those who do not espouse such a "truth" are in league with evil. I do not seek an establishment of atheism. I do canvas donations for atheism. I speak of atheism to no one outside of a venue such as this.

I well understand the criticism which is frequently and justifiably applied to those atheist who make a religious creed of science that they have made a religion of atheism. That does not describe me. You largely know nothing of me, and it was an act of arrogant pontification on your part to have accused me of making a religion of atheism.

Atheism is simply, for my part, the denial that there are any gods or goddesses. It is not something in which i believe, it is a denial on my part of the belief of others. I find your style of trying to pick apart what others write tedious. "One, you seem at times more here to just argue and try to prove that you are right all the time rather than to promote a viewpoint." -- was the comment which Skeptic has made which resonated with me. While i acknowledge that it may not be your intent, your style suggests a contempt for the views expressed by others with which you disagree, and it seems that you imply that yours is the realm of logical analysis, and that others come to their conclusions by a murky thought process beneath the dignity of your intellect. This is why, for months at a time, i avoid threads in which i see you posting. I find your manner insufferable.

Today, however, my ancient Irish nature came to the surface, i don't mind a good set to . . .

Oh, I am the King of Ireland
I love to sing and dance
And if you don't believe me
I will kick you in your pants . . .

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truth
Tagged, you ask who is JL. Nobody.

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never mind see told you iwas drunk

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tagged_lyricist wrote:

Yes but this discussion is not based in reality it is about beliefs and not pratical purpses obviousl I dont support the idea that if you believe you can fly you can so go jump off that sky scraper cos what gravity?

Well, thing is, I agree with your overall sentiment.

I think the underlying conclusion you are trying to reach is that if one allows his beliefs to be thought superior it can lead to catastrophe. One's actions could take on a malicious nature based on this premise.

So in cases where there is no *demonstratable* fallacy I do indeed believe a tie is reasonable.

But this is not just abstract.

If someone tells me God wants me to give them my money I need to make a decision.

At that moment I will probably lean toward keeping my money and not want to give their opinion equal footing.

So for the purpose of peaceful coexistence I think it's necessary to respect the opinions of others, but I simply would not misconstrue respect for validation. Some opinions are more equal than others. ;-)

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aah well then say to him that your God says you shouldn't end of discussion:P

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Setanta wrote:

My my my . . .

I know that there is no Santa Claus, that there is no Easter Bunny, and that there are no gods nor goddesses because all are predicated upon transparently fallacious premises, without admitting of physical proof.

Sure you do!

Quote:

Frank, i referred to your pontification because you accused me of making a religion of atheism. That is preposterous, and an intellectual arrogance on your part--that is why i used the term pontification.

Ahhh...so that is why you said that!

Tell me, Setanta, did I do that during this lifetime -- or in a previous one.

Perhaps you will cite a reference for this -- or am I supposed to take your word for it.

And of course, you will be willing to apologize if you find that I never said any such thing, right?

Quote:

I well understand the criticism which is frequently and justifiably applied to those atheist who make a religious creed of science that they have made a religion of atheism. That does not describe me. You largely know nothing of me, and it was an act of arrogant pontification on your part to have accused me of making a religion of atheism.

See above.

Quote:

I find your style of trying to pick apart what others write tedious.

Well, stop reading what I write then.

Quote:

you seem at times more here to just argue and try to prove that you are right all the time rather than to promote a viewpoint." -- was the comment which Skeptic has made which resonated with me. While i acknowledge that it may not be your intent, your style suggests a contempt for the views expressed by others with which you disagree, and it seems that you imply that yours is the realm of logical analysis, and that others come to their conclusions by a murky thought process beneath the dignity of your intellect.

That's funny -- I hear contempt for other views in so much of what you write. Maybe we're related.

Quote:

This is why, for months at a time, i avoid threads in which i see you posting. I find your manner insufferable.

Ahhh...thanks for telling me that. Frankly, you add so little to most discussions, I never even missed you. But I'll keep all this in mind in the future.

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Frank, i referred once again to your statement about atheists defending that there is no god. I read back, and acknowledge that you did not actually use the language "make a religion of atheism" . . .

mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa . . .

And, of course, that's what its all about, isn't it Frank, the words and what you might be able to build from them? To hell with the meaning, substance is to be found in the rhetorical act, n'est-ce pas?

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And, of course, allow me to compliment you on the charming style you adopt. I've been addressing what you've written--and been mistaken and offered an apology. Meanwhile, you've determined, without knowing the first thingn of me personally, that my live is otherwise drab than when in an exchange with you, as well as pointedly ignored the statement i've made about precisely why atheism is not necessarily and often not the polar equivalent of religion. Be sure to take all that you can sneer at in this and the previous post--i wouldn't wish to miss a minute of your spellbinding disquisition, while otherwise suffering my drab existence.

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From where I sit, I think Frank has a problem, because he's trying to put "value" on theism, agnosticism, and atheist as if they are of the same category. They are actually poles apart. To put the argument that "we cannot know," is his value applied to our beliefs. On the same token, it does no good to tell the theist that there is no god. You can never convince the theist that god doesn't exist. Correction; you can tell him, but they will not believe you.

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I particularly love the contention of superiority because of the point of view:

Frank Apisa wrote:

I still think agnosticism has an advantage over atheism because the agnostic acknowledges that he/she does not KNOW if there is a God and does not KNOW if there are no gods -- and says so.

That puts the agnostic in an ethically superior position to atheists who present their arguments the way you do, Setanta.

Well whoopee **** . . . so that means you win, Frank? Do you get a pin for this, or a certificate?

Oh my achin' ass . . .

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Setanta wrote:

Frank, i referred once again to your statement about atheists defending that there is no god. I read back, and acknowledge that you did not actually use the language "make a religion of atheism" . . .

mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa . . .

And, of course, that's what its all about, isn't it Frank, the words and what you might be able to build from them? To hell with the meaning, substance is to be found in the rhetorical act, n'est-ce pas?

Quite an apology.

In other words you want me to have said what you say I said -- and to hell with what I actually said.

Not only did I never say that you are making a religion of atheism -- I initiated a whole goddam thread devoted to refuting that theme back in Abuzz -- if your memory serves.

I not only did not say it, Setanta, I never inferred it.

Learn to read. Then come back. Maybe we can have a reasonable discussion then.

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I sit at your feet in breathless awe, master . . .

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Atheism has the same logical flaws as religion

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