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3 year old kicked off plane for temper tantrum

 
 
Mame
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Jan, 2007 03:45 pm
Phoenix32890 wrote:
I travel JetBlue.................and I have not seen hide nor hair of a first class seat. They are ALL coach seats. They always announce preboarding by saying that it is for small children, people in wheelchairs, and anyone else who needs a little extra help or time in boarding.


It's the same on all airlines here in Canada, and recently I flew to and from LA and San Fran, and those airlines (Alaska and United) had the same message about "...those needing assistance or who have small children are invited to pre-board..."

Wasn't the whole issue the fact that she was not in her seat? It doesn't take two to buckle a kid up, does it? As far as I'm concerned, the noise (screaming) is a different issue - was she even screaming? I can't remember anymore. Believe me, if I knew we were about to take off, my brat would have been in her damn seat ... anybody can say all they want about the poor little dears , but 3 yr olds have a very good understanding of what's what and how to manipulate, etc. They are NOT stupid! They understand "Don't", "No", "Come here", and "Be Quiet!" I think the blames lies squarely on mom and dad.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Jan, 2007 05:00 pm
Walter Hinteler wrote:
In an earlier report, the grandfather said that they arrived 45 mins before departure - which surprided me re security.

I pretty much always arrive 45 mins before departure - never had a problem.

(I did once arrive 25 mins before departure - now that was stupid. Missed the plane, had to buy a train ticket and travel 9 hrs.)
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Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Jan, 2007 05:08 pm
ehBeth wrote:
Yup - JetBlue always has pre-boarding - at least when you're going in NYC or Buffalo. Southwest has had it for all flights I've been on - all levels.

Mebbe not offering it is a MA specialty?


Maybe - the strange thing was on my most recent trip on Jet Blue I flew from Boston to Orlando. Ya think this would be a biggie with all the kids. This was for business so I didn't have no monster with me. Jet Blue is great because if there are noisy kids you simply put on the headphones and watch some TV.
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Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Jan, 2007 05:17 pm
When I travel with my kids - now 4 and 8 and I've traveled with them since the oldest was 1 month old - yep flew across country to visit all the relatives - slept the whole way too.

Away - I plan, plan, plan. We arrive extra early so we aren't rushed - usually a couple hours early - in case of traffic - let the kids play in the kids play area so they can get their energy out.

As soon as we board, we strap them in - pull out lollipops to help with the ear thing, books or a doll that they can play with - without the tray down. Once up - pull out the old portable DVD - it is a life saver and have various crappy cheap new toys that if they lose who cares. If a change of planes - while waiting to board the next flight - we find an area that they can run back and forth and have them run races so they use up their energy. It is all a manner of planning. And if that doesn't work -just give them the look!
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Jan, 2007 05:17 pm
I'd be a hell of a lot less offended by a crying child than by a parent smacking him. Plus, whenever I saw a child smacked, it'd just make him scream a lot harder.

Also I agree that how we remember ourselves being as kids, or how our parents remember or retell it, offers hardly any realistic basis for comparison.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Jan, 2007 12:29 am
nimh wrote:
I'd be a hell of a lot less offended by a crying child than by a parent smacking him. Plus, whenever I saw a child smacked, it'd just make him scream a lot harder.


Certainly.

And I can't imagine that someone does it in a plane - would fasten the involuntary leaving of the plane immensely.
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Jan, 2007 09:19 am
I plan plan plan too, and we've never had a problem like this. BUT, with all of that planning, there are so many places where something could go wrong.

Nimh gets my point about smacking/ screaming -- that if they forced the issue (one way or another) she was likely to be sitting there screaming for the entire flight (or a chunk of it) and that screaming, once started, is hard to stop. (Stuffing a sock in her mouth would probably be frowned upon.)

That is vs. just solving the problem (again, she may have been upset because she'd recently had ear surgery and was maybe in pain on the descent on their way to Florida and was scared about that may have been why she was upset), by talking to her about whether her ears hurt, getting her some Tylenol/ gum/ something and assuring her it would help, etc. Sozlet was totally capable of listening to that sort of thing when she was three.

Anyway, that's the point I was trying to make that I'm not sure if it got through, the other stuff I've said (about parents maybe being too passive [dunno], about whether she caused the delay or the delay was for other reasons [dunno] and about, given the facts, I'm generally sympathetic to the airlines) stands.
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Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Jan, 2007 09:37 am
sozobe wrote:
Nimh gets my point about smacking/ screaming -- that if they forced the issue (one way or another) she was likely to be sitting there screaming for the entire flight (or a chunk of it) and that screaming, once started, is hard to stop. (Stuffing a sock in her mouth would probably be frowned upon.)

Maybe I'm just being dense or difficult, but I don't think the Airline personell had a problem with her screaming. They had a problem with her refusal to buckle up before takeoff. Sure, a screaming, buckled-up child is annoying. But an unbuckled child, screaming or smiling, can turn into a potentially lethal projectile as soon as something goes wrong. This, not the yelling, is what the airline had a problem with.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Jan, 2007 09:40 am
Thomas is right. It was the reportage iearly on in print and the news that emphasized the crying.
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Jan, 2007 09:41 am
OK, still not making the point, then.

Goal: Get child buckled in her seat WITHOUT causing her to scream for the duration of the flight.

Possible actions:

1.) Grab her forcefully and put her in her seat. Screaming commences.

2.) Talk to her for a bit, figure out what's up (her tantrum came out of nowhere, accounts say, she had been traveling fine before that), reassure her that she doesn't have to worry about her ears, and once she's calmed down a bit, help her into her seat and buckle her up. She's there, she's not screaming, and the whole thing wouldn't necessarily take long at all.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Jan, 2007 09:49 am
sozobe wrote:
OK, still not making the point, then.

Goal: Get child buckled in her seat WITHOUT causing her to scream for the duration of the flight.

Oh, I did get that this is a worthy goal, and that your scenario #2 achieves it. I'm just saying it wasn't the failure to meet this goal that made the airline evict the family. The airline would have probably been fine with your scenario #1.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Jan, 2007 09:53 am
But what's unclear is whether the airline gave the family any kind of time to try to effect #2. Were they the cause of the 15 minute delay, or were they abruptly told to solve the problem and then kicked off within "moments" (as one account has it)?

I think it was a judgement call on the airline's part and I can see why they made it.

I agree with Noddy that hopefully it will result in workable procedures to avoid something like this happening again.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Jan, 2007 10:59 am
The articles I've seen posted (at that OTHER food forum) suggest that the 15-minute delay was caused by the family in question. They'd been given some time to get their child buckled up - and were using it to calm/reason etc. - and buckling up was not achieved.

I'd prefer the buckled-up non-screamer, but for safety reasons I'd accept buckled-up screamer as a co-passenger. Not buckled-up, she's got to go.

Them's the rules (they apply in my car as well)
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Jan, 2007 11:08 am
My sympathy is definitely greatly reduced if the 15-minute delay was caused by them.
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Robert Gentel
 
  2  
Reply Mon 18 Aug, 2008 06:42 pm
@Linkat,
http://freespeech.vo.llnwd.net/o25/pub/images/cavity.jpg
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Aug, 2008 06:49 am
@Robert Gentel,
nice - do you know where I can get that book - it may be helpful for my children
0 Replies
 
 

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