I'll go with Noddy. I think everyone has said that the parents had the responsibility to take control of the situation. Part of parenting is certainly staying tuned in to when your kids have had more than they can handle. But I'm not ready to demonize a little girl that I don't know.
I agree that the airlines did the right thing (with the information that we have).
I just think saying that air travel with children is "not stressful" is not true.
Spending 5 hours on a plane (not to mention 2 hours in the airport) where you are given a few tiny packs of peanuts and a wee glass of ginger ale and given the leg room to accomodate a four foot tall, eighty pound person who they would rather have pee on their seat than let up to go to the bathroom is not exactly an easy travel experience.
While I'll cop to not being the best parent in the world, or even the block, I can admit that getting a root canal is more pleasant than solo air travel these days, much less with a small child.
Now let me get this straight. No smoking on planes, but they allow children. A little fairness, huh?
I was on this one flight right, I'm flying, I'm trying to sleep on the plane; very tired right, and I feel this tapping on my head. I look up and there's this little kid - LOOSE!, On the f*cking plane! Just loose! It's his playground in the sky. And he has decided that his job is to repetitively tap me on the top of the head.
And I look over at the mom and she's just smilin'. And the guy next to her says "Aw, they're so cute when they're that small." And the mom's just smilin'.
Isn't that amazing, letting your kid run loose on a f*cking plane...
And then the kid runs over to the emergency exit and he starts flipping that handle next to the door! And the guy next to the mom starts to get up, and I go, "Wait a minute...we're about to learn an important lesson right here."
<Kawooooshh>
Why, you're right: the smaller he gets, the cuter he is!
Stewardess, since we got a breeze in here can we smoke now?
-Bill Hicks, legend
After a 4 hour plane ride with a crying, kicking child behind me I thought starting an "adults only" airline would be a good investment.
Mame wrote:The year is irrelevant. It's all about the parenting. What will and will not be tolerated.
I suspect in this case the little girl is a prima donna, "prone" to hissy fits. In my family, that was not allowed.
Not in mine either. We knew better, even at 3, than to carry on like that in public. My mother simply wasn't having it and Daddy? Don't try it if you want to see 4.
I suspect those parents were more into their child's need for self-expression and exploration than society's need for well-behaved children.
Any toddler is capable of creating hideously memorable moments--any good parent is capable of confining those memorable moments to a limited area.
Several years ago, in early April, I looked out my living room window and saw Mama Bear with two cubs approaching my bird feeders. She told the cubs to go up a pine tree. One was obedient. The other indicated that he'd much rather explore Noddy's Wildlife-Friendly Yard.
Mama turned him around and indicated the pine tree. Cub, using non-verbal language, announced he was going to climb an oak tree instead.
Cub got a boot on the backside from the maternal paw and scuttled up the pine tree like Good Bear Cub.
FreeDuck wrote:Flying is stressful for young children. If the flight was delayed after they boarded, that means they sat there breathing nasty stale air in cramped quarters. Nobody enjoys such an experience, but I imagine for a child who may have already had a stressful day it could send her into a hissy.
The parents should have yanked her out from under the seat and buckled her in. Is there a chance that they didn't realize seriousness of the situation? Did they know the plane was about to take off?
That's what I was thinking after seeing and hearing more reports. I think the issue could have been resolved if the airline attendant was clear on the repercussions . Did the attendant tell them they would be kicked off if the child was not buckled in her seat within 2 minutes or did they just say they needed her buckled to take off? If so, there would be no question who was at fault here.
I was once on a plane when a man kept standing up and rocking his baby because the baby was crying. The attendant told him he needed to be seated because we were taking off. He sat down and kept getting up. The attendant had to keep repeating herself. He was more concerned on calming the baby's crying than any FAA regulation - however, had the attendant told him he would have been kicked off I would highly bet he would had sat in his seats in seconds.
I can't tell you how many times I have been some where and I tell my children - no you can't climb on that or you can't do that - see the sign it says no climbing. And then some numnut comes and their child is climbing on the item and the parent just smiles or ignores it. At least most times my children tend to side with me and think the kid is naughty.
eoe wrote:Mame wrote:The year is irrelevant. It's all about the parenting. What will and will not be tolerated.
I suspect in this case the little girl is a prima donna, "prone" to hissy fits. In my family, that was not allowed.
Not in mine either. We knew better, even at 3, than to carry on like that in public. My mother simply wasn't having it and Daddy? Don't try it if you want to see 4.
It wasn't allowed in my family either and my parents didn't hesitate to beat us in public if we so much as asked for something. However, that isn't socially acceptable anymore.
On the other hand, were I this girls parent, I might remind her whenever I got the chance about how her bad behavior got the whole family kicked off of a flight. It's one mother of a natural consequence.
Mame wrote:The year is irrelevant. It's all about the parenting. What will and will not be tolerated.
I suspect in this case the little girl is a prima donna, "prone" to hissy fits. In my family, that was not allowed.
The long article Osso linked to indicated that the little girl is normally really well-behaved, including the flight there (this all happened on the flight home), and that this was a surprise. They thought maybe it had something to do with recent ear surgery (tubes?) and discomfort on the way down on the flight there.
FreeDuck wrote:eoe wrote:Not in mine either. We knew better, even at 3, than to carry on like that in public. My mother simply wasn't having it and Daddy? Don't try it if you want to see 4.
It wasn't allowed in my family either and my parents didn't hesitate to beat us in public if we so much as asked for something. However, that isn't socially acceptable anymore.
Really! I can just imagine the headlines if the parents DID take this tack...
Parents kicked off airline for abusing child.
I mean, the airline
did say it doesn't matter if the hitter is 3 or 33, right?
I disagree - on further thought - that the airline would be at fault that they didn't warn the parents that they would be tossed off the flight. That would be helpful for controlling these situations, it seems, and would be courteous - however, one is not supposed to not listen to flight personel when they request something, especially twice, and the person who did the kicking off was probably the pursor (head attendent), who had been called over to settle the problem.
I doubt the child is especially bratty. The parents should have secured the child in her seat and sat down themselves, best with her in the seat between them (I don't know anything about the seating arrangement). Instead they spent their time, however extensive that was, trying to calm her crying and not putting her in the seat - or so it seems.
There is a right way and a wrong way to handle tantrums. Ignore the behavior and gently press the child into doing what it is told or withdraw from the situation and short curcuit the power struggle. The wrong way is to give the child attention and try to reason with it or buy it off as so many parents try to do.
A 5 year old was at a resturaunt as part of a family gathering. Having been asked to sit in a certain seat several times the child was now openly defying both parents. the child was getting exactly what she wanted attention and a whole restaurant full of it. I sat in the childs seat and said Yum baked beans on toast. I'm gonna enjoy this. The child told me i couldnt eat that as it was hers. I asked her if she was going to eat it now she said NO! so I started eating. she pulled the plate away and started eating. Getting her to sit in the seat her parents wanted her to sit in was easy I picked her up and put her there saying now youll be able to eat your dinner next to daddy and dont forget if you dont want that I'll have it.
The parents had spent 10 minutes trying to reason with this 5 year old.
The airline did all the right things except perhaps give the parents fair and reasonable warning.
Aircraft have a set "window" for takeoff. If that window is not taken they have to reque and wait for a slot. This may have been (given the 15 minute delay) the impetus for the fast decision. I find it understandable that the airline did not want to inconvienience 112 other passengers for the sake of one little girls temper tantrum.
I'll bet that the training for Airline Cabin Staff now includes warn the parents that either their child sits still for takeoff or the family will be getting off the plane.
ossobuco wrote:I disagree - on further thought - that the airline would be at fault that they didn't warn the parents that they would be tossed off the flight. That would be helpful for controlling these situations, it seems, and would be courteous - however, one is not supposed to not listen to flight personel when they request something, especially twice, and the person who did the kicking off was probably the pursor (head attendent), who had been called over to settle the problem.
I doubt the child is especially bratty. The parents should have secured the child in her seat and sat down themselves, best with her in the seat between them (I don't know anything about the seating arrangement). Instead they spent their time, however extensive that was, trying to calm her crying and not putting her in the seat - or so it seems.
I suppose I should re-phase rather than say who is at fault - I meant it would be the best tactic for the airline to take for them even more so than the offender. Makes it clear so no one can come back and say I only needed a minute to calm her, I was surprised, etc.
Nods. I'll bet there will be meetings about the wording...
I've also started to wonder quite how this got on national tv.
Quote:I've also started to wonder quite how this got on national tv.
Because this is another case of Nasty Old Officialdom once again persecuting An Innocent Member of the Public.
I think there is also something more specific going on. This reminds me a lot of the debate that was raging a bit ago about kids in coffeehouses and restaurants.
eoe wrote:Mame wrote:The year is irrelevant. It's all about the parenting. What will and will not be tolerated.
I suspect in this case the little girl is a prima donna, "prone" to hissy fits. In my family, that was not allowed.
Not in mine either. We knew better, even at 3, than to carry on like that in public. My mother simply wasn't having it and Daddy? Don't try it if you want to see 4.
Yep. My children know bad behavior isn't tolerated at home, and it REALLY isn't tolerated in public places. They learned that lesson at an early age, and they know they better be perfect little angels when we are in a restaurant or store.
My mother only ever had to give me "the look" and I knew better.
IMO, alot of parents nowadays, need to spend less time "reasoning" with a child and gain more control.
And when you say "gaining control" I hope you mean spanking some hynies because sometimes, that's the only way to "reason" with a headstrong child and show them just who's in charge.
My father spanked me twice. That was all it took. His motto was, "until you learn right from wrong, all you need to know is fear."
