0
   

Chavez to U.S.: 'Go to hell, gringos!'

 
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Jan, 2007 01:26 pm
squinney wrote:
Quote:
The National Assembly, controlled by the president's political allies, is expected to give final approval this week to what it calls the "enabling law," which would grant Chavez authority to pass a series of laws by decree during an 18-month period.


And that's different from signing statements and other Bush moves in what way?

Oh, yeah, the 18 month limit.

Bush cannot pass laws onto the books by decree.
0 Replies
 
Lord Ellpus
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Jan, 2007 01:34 pm
I bet he would if he could, though.
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Jan, 2007 01:38 pm
Lord Ellpus wrote:
I bet he would if he could, though.

I'll bet you'd murder widows and orphans for fun if you could get away with it. Am I correct?
0 Replies
 
Lord Ellpus
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Jan, 2007 01:44 pm
Brandon9000 wrote:
Lord Ellpus wrote:
I bet he would if he could, though.

I'll bet you'd murder widows and orphans for fun if you could get away with it. Am I correct?


Only if they had a few million barrels of oil between them. :wink:
0 Replies
 
woiyo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Jan, 2007 03:10 pm
Lord Ellpus wrote:
Why DO the right wingers in the USA show such interest in Chavez and Venezuala?

Maybe it's because the country has HUUUUUGE reserves of oil?

If all they had to export each year was a few sacks of coffee and a couple of cases of corned beef, I bet none of you would've even heard of the guy.


Maybe because he has a big mouth?
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Jan, 2007 04:48 pm
Lord Ellpus wrote:
I read recently that he's got a plan underway to bulldoze a couple of "Millionaire" golf courses by the coast, in order to build some good quality social housing for "blue collar" workers from a nearby city.

Sounds like he's got his people at heart, if this is true.


Four years ago, imports and exports between the USA and Venezuala was running at about $20billion a year.
It now stands at about $47 billion a year, with the USA supplying almost a third of Venezuala's imports.

The problem may be that Chavez is possibly considering sending some of his oil to China, and this has the Whitehouse scared as it could possibly affect the amount of oil sent to the USA.

Currently, the USA imports $39 billion worth of oil each year from him.

THIS is why there is the possible "meddling" going on, leading to Chavez being a bit pissed off with Bushco, IMO.

I would recommend that they be nice to him, if they want to keep the U.S. factories running.


I believe Elpus is exhibiting a serious misunderstanding of the international oil market as well as some basic economics and the attitude of the U.S. government towards Venezuela.

Chavez' need to sell his oil is every bit as great as ours (or China's) to buy it. The market is well established and anyone with the money to buy gets the oil he wants. In fact, as a result of our proximity Venezuela's best customer (from its own profit perspective) has long been and will continue to be the United States.

Chavez is quite obviously using the United States as a rhetorical hate figure to give the poor Venezuelans he is so effectively duping something to focus on while he removes their freedoms. We have no particular history of (or interest in) meddling in Venezuelan internal affairs, though Venezuela has a very long history of corrupt government, class warfare, exploitation and economic inefficiency. The enormous natural wealth iof the country has been wasted for generations, and under Chavez that is likely to accelerate rapidly.

I doubt that our government enjioys the insulting rhetoric that Chavez spews out so prodigiously. However, the truth is Venezuela isn't particularly important to us or anyone else. They will continue to pump and export their oil (though likely less efficiently with government management), and continue to waste the revenues on subsidies designed primarily to enhance the great leader's political power -- and likely destroy what remains of Venezuela's economy in the process.

The U.S. has no interest or intent on an embargo of Venezuela. The embargo with respect to Cuba is an artifact of Cuba's former status as a client state of the Soviet Union and agent of revolution in Central America. That is all over now, and the only reason the embargo continues is that we don't want to be made to pay the bill for the restoration of the Cuban economy through loans and investments -- a process that will likely take a generation or two.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Jan, 2007 04:54 pm
georgeob1 wrote:
... we don't want to be made to pay the bill for the restoration of the Cuban economy through loans and investments -- a process that will likely take a generation or two.


Let's hope so, by goodness - though I know of a similar situation where it takes ... ... :wink:
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Jan, 2007 04:55 pm
I would say that the entire world...including our country...would be better off if the heads of more countries were to tell us to go to hell!

Good for Chavez!
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Jan, 2007 04:58 pm
Walter Hinteler wrote:
georgeob1 wrote:
... we don't want to be made to pay the bill for the restoration of the Cuban economy through loans and investments -- a process that will likely take a generation or two.


Let's hope so, by goodness - though I know of a similar situation where it takes ... ... :wink:


Well, if it has taken the better part of a generation to undue the effects of 45 years of authoritarian socialism in the former East Germany, then two generations is a very generousl;y low estimate for Cubans and Venezuelans.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Jan, 2007 05:35 pm
Frank Apisa wrote:
I would say that the entire world...including our country...would be better off if the heads of more countries were to tell us to go to hell!

Good for Chavez!


Would you care to elaborate on this? What countries in particular do you have in mind? What "good" has Chavez done with his rhetoric? Who has beneffitted?

Do you believe that Chavez will significantly improve the economic welfare and political development of Venezuela? Can you think of a single example of the success of his sort of authoritarian "Socialism"?
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Jan, 2007 07:12 pm
georgeob1 wrote:
Frank Apisa wrote:
I would say that the entire world...including our country...would be better off if the heads of more countries were to tell us to go to hell!

Good for Chavez!


Would you care to elaborate on this?


Not particularly, George.

I think it pretty much speaks for itself.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Jan, 2007 07:17 pm
Then it doesn't mean much.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Jan, 2007 07:19 pm
Glad to see Frank back and bumptuous.

Me, I see Chavez as demogoggyish, but I agree with him some fair amount of the time - just not the process.

And I don't agree with our (US) behavior at some length.

You get what you ask for, people naturally respond.

I'd like to hear more from Fbaezer, as he has been around the block - I take what he says seriously.
0 Replies
 
Lord Ellpus
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Jan, 2007 07:22 pm
georgeob1 wrote:
Frank Apisa wrote:
I would say that the entire world...including our country...would be better off if the heads of more countries were to tell us to go to hell!

Good for Chavez!


Would you care to elaborate on this? What countries in particular do you have in mind? What "good" has Chavez done with his rhetoric? Who has beneffitted?

Do you believe that Chavez will significantly improve the economic welfare and political development of Venezuela? Can you think of a single example of the success of his sort of authoritarian "Socialism"?


I'm just off to bed now, so I can't really be arsed to google for anything, but I would hazard a guess that a landslide re-election (without pregnant or hanging chads) would be indication enough that his people have faith and are quite happy with his performance to date.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Jan, 2007 07:39 pm
There was plenty of evidence of intimidation and manipulation of the recent election results in Venezuela - though I will cioncede that Chavez would likely have won a fair election. (Indeed he will likely remain popular as long as he can prop up a declining economy with giveaways from the nation's resources - or at least until the peiople come to realize they are being ruled by a dictator.)

You may recall that both Hitler and Mussolini came to power in national elections - and soon afterwards began to dismantle constitutional limits on their power and tenure -- all just as the esteemed Mr. Chavez is doing.


I do wonder if any of the Chavez admirers here -- Elpus, Apisa, Osso have ever been to Venezuela?
0 Replies
 
gustavratzenhofer
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Jan, 2007 07:39 pm
georgeob wrote:
Chavez is quite obviously using the United States as a rhetorical hate figure to give the poor Venezuelans he is so effectively duping something to focus on while he removes their freedoms.


Sounds familiar
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Jan, 2007 07:42 pm
Clever point, but without merit. What freedoms have we lost?
0 Replies
 
gustavratzenhofer
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Jan, 2007 07:44 pm
It's a slow process, george, like being nibbled to death by ducks.
0 Replies
 
mesquite
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Jan, 2007 09:16 pm
nibble
Quote:
Pledge Protection Act of 2004 - Amends the Federal judicial code to deny jurisdiction to any Federal court, and appellate jurisdiction to the Supreme Court, to hear or decide any question pertaining to the interpretation of the Pledge of Allegiance or its validity under the Constitution. Makes this limitation inapplicable to the Superior Court of the District of Columbia or the District of Columbia Court of Appeals.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Jan, 2007 10:04 pm
The US govt tried to get rid of him when he was recently elected for the first time. He has reason to dislike our govt.
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

Obama '08? - Discussion by sozobe
Let's get rid of the Electoral College - Discussion by Robert Gentel
McCain's VP: - Discussion by Cycloptichorn
Food Stamp Turkeys - Discussion by H2O MAN
The 2008 Democrat Convention - Discussion by Lash
McCain is blowing his election chances. - Discussion by McGentrix
Snowdon is a dummy - Discussion by cicerone imposter
TEA PARTY TO AMERICA: NOW WHAT?! - Discussion by farmerman
 
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.03 seconds on 09/29/2024 at 12:30:19