2
   

U.S. Navy Prepares Missile Strike on Iran

 
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Jan, 2007 12:02 pm
oralloy wrote:
georgeob1 wrote:
Nothing at all new here. We have had submarines in the Persian Gulf and the Northern Arabian Sea for years. Most are armed with cruise missiles which come with a variety of warheads, conventional and nuclear. Others have ballistic missiles with much longer range - they could hit Iran from almost anywhere in the Indian Ocean.


True. We could bomb Iran without sailing our surface ships within the range of their missiles. In addition to the subs, we have long range bombers that could fly out of Diego Garcia.

However, for whatever reason, Bush seems to want to do it with aircraft carriers, which means it could get ugly.


There is also nothing new about aircraft carriers operatring in the Northern Arabian Sea and the Persian Gulf. The United States has kept aircraft carriers on station there continuously for the past twenty five years! Iranian anti ship missiles (whether from China or Russia) are nothing new either. The first Chinese Silkworm anti ship missiles were delivered to Iran in the mid 1980s.

This whole subject is just a lot of dust kicked up into the air.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Jan, 2007 12:24 pm
georgeob1 wrote:
oralloy wrote:
georgeob1 wrote:
Nothing at all new here. We have had submarines in the Persian Gulf and the Northern Arabian Sea for years. Most are armed with cruise missiles which come with a variety of warheads, conventional and nuclear. Others have ballistic missiles with much longer range - they could hit Iran from almost anywhere in the Indian Ocean.


True. We could bomb Iran without sailing our surface ships within the range of their missiles. In addition to the subs, we have long range bombers that could fly out of Diego Garcia.

However, for whatever reason, Bush seems to want to do it with aircraft carriers, which means it could get ugly.


There is also nothing new about aircraft carriers operatring in the Northern Arabian Sea and the Persian Gulf. The United States has kept aircraft carriers on station there continuously for the past twenty five years! Iranian anti ship missiles (whether from China or Russia) are nothing new either. The first Chinese Silkworm anti ship missiles were delivered to Iran in the mid 1980s.

This whole subject is just a lot of dust kicked up into the air.


You are absolutely right, George. These are probably those same "cry wolf" people who insisted George Dumbya Bush was gonna attack Iraq.

Twisted Evil
0 Replies
 
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Jan, 2007 12:31 pm
Hello Frank (new name, not sure if you know it yet).

Oralloy - last time I was on this forum (years ago, with a name that's no longer available) you mentioned on a discussion on nuclear weapons designs that you are Israeli; perhaps I'm mistaken however.

In any event if either you or GeorgeOB could address the commentary in a report much-read in financial circles >

http://www.rawprint.com/images/Iran07a.pdf

> from ING dated January 9th and entitled "Attacking Iran" I'm sure the whole thread would appreciate it.
0 Replies
 
candidone1
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Jan, 2007 01:05 pm
Oralloy, judging the tone of your last point, I hope you aren't arguing that because the US could "bomb Iran without sailing our surface ships within the range of their missiles", it'll either be done, or it'll be done without a major fight from Iran.

The American right seems so hungry for war, war of any kind, and war at any cost, that they forget that it is they who have labelled Ahmadinejad a "madman".
He has been labelled a madman in a time when Iran is not militarily engaged.

What will become if Iran if aggressive manoeuvres are initiated by the US?

What will become of the US if the international community continues to witness repeated attempts by Ahmadinejad to engage in dialogues with Bush, and rather than granted dialogue, are engaged in war?
0 Replies
 
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Jan, 2007 02:49 pm
candidone1 wrote:
.........

The American right seems so hungry for war, war of any kind, and war at any cost, that they forget that it is they who have labelled Ahmadinejad a "madman".
...........?


Source of this statement, please?
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Jan, 2007 03:09 pm
High Seas wrote:
Hello Frank (new name, not sure if you know it yet).

Oralloy - last time I was on this forum (years ago, with a name that's no longer available) you mentioned on a discussion on nuclear weapons designs that you are Israeli; perhaps I'm mistaken however.

In any event if either you or GeorgeOB could address the commentary in a report much-read in financial circles >

http://www.rawprint.com/images/Iran07a.pdf

> from ING dated January 9th and entitled "Attacking Iran" I'm sure the whole thread would appreciate it.


I am not an Israeli...I am from New Jersey...and my ancestors came from further west on the Mediterranean littoral. I think an attack on Iran, by the US or by Israel would be a disaster.

We really have got to get away from the bully on the schoolyard mentality.

I will let Israel speak for itself…but I think it is in our best interests…and the interests of the world in general, if we do not abet Israel in moves of this sort. Make no mistake about this…I feel Israel has every right to exist…and I deplore the fact that it is under constant pressures from its neighbors. But the defense of Israel cannot be the beginning and end of all US policy in the Middle East…and probably, this mentality has helped to create the situation in which we now find ourselves.

It is my opinion that there will never be anything even remotely like peace in the Middle East so long as there is a state of Israel….and any living Arabs in the area. One or the other has to go. They have to make the decision.

I see absolutely nothing wrong with a Jewish state called Israel being carved out of some other area…even the continental United States if necessary. I realize the strong connection Jews have with the area in which it is now constituted….but it just is not going to work. Of course, I am a headstrong person…and I have often done things that amount to cutting off my nose to spite my face. If the Israelis finally decide they've had enough and are willing to risk annihilation…taking most of the rest of the world with them by starting something that becomes world wide…so be it.
0 Replies
 
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Jan, 2007 03:12 pm
P.S. the only US politician I could locate who called Ahmedinejad a "madman" is Senator Voinovich of Ohio >
http://blog.thehill.com/2006/12/12/mahmoud-ahmadinejad-is-a-madman/
> and I don't see him calling for any more "war, war, war", or claiming to represent "the right" in toto.

Any more sources would be welcome.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Jan, 2007 03:30 pm
Frank Apisa wrote:

You are absolutely right, George. These are probably those same "cry wolf" people who insisted George Dumbya Bush was gonna attack Iraq.

Twisted Evil


While I don't know for sure what were the Administration's real reasons for the attack on Iraq, I believe there were (and are) good ones for doing so.

It is very easy to criticize action taken to head off the possibility of a distant, but far worse, outcome. The costs and bad side effects of the action itself manifest themselves quickly, while the more distant motivating factor may remain, just a possibility. History doesn't reveal its alternatives, but its judgements can be pretty tough on those who, after the fact are found to have failed to take timely action to head off a serious danger while there was still time.

The standard example of this is the Governments of England and France during the mid 1930sa. Why, when they had all the advantages, didn't they respond forcefully when Hitler reoccupied the Rhineland? (We now know there may well have been a coup in Germany if they had done so). The fact is they were far more worried about the equally threatening and murderous threat posed by the Soviet Union, and saw Hitler as an effective means of halting the spread of revolution to Germany ( a real danger in the early 1930s) and as a potential bulwark against Soviet influence in Western Europe. It wasn't until ,later that they learned that the prospect of Nazi domination was, despite its modernity compared to soviet communism, every bit as hateful and far more proximate a danger than that posed by the Soviets.


Criticize Bush if you wish, but you would impress me more if you put it in a context of how alternatively we should deal with the challenge presented to the West by a Moslem world caught in backward authoritarian and theocratic political models, and, -- angry at both its own backwardness and the evils inflicted on it by European colonialism and European-inspired Zionism. -- looking for someone to blame for its troubles.

High Tide (is it HOT?) -- interesting piece. My impression is that the economic effects will be brief and transient; the world economy will continue top be driven by the same underlying factors as before. Even the historical data presented there confirms that with respect to previous events.

The decision to get ready to do something is not the same thing as the decision to do it -- particularly when the act of getting ready has itself the potential to tilt events in a favorable way, and, equally importantly, forestall worse actions on the part of the object of it all -- Iran. I believe the U.S. strategic view is that Iran is and has long been our chief strategic threat in the region. A country of 50 million, it dwarfs Iraq (with about 17 million). That is what motivated our relatively minor actions to support Iraq during the war in the 1980s. We didn't want to see either side emerge as a clear victor, and, at the time it appeared that Iraq might go under. (That support wasn't anywhere near the nonsense that Cicerone so credulously puts forward from the various purveyors of conspiracy theories).

I believe our analysis involves significant attention to the internal politics of Iran, which, for all its theocratic backwardness, has important, functioning elements of democracy and a large generation of young people who may be increasingly interested in joining the modern world.

Iran needs to sell its oil just as badly as Japan, China, and the U.S. need to buy it. We have a vital interest in keeping the Straits of Hormuz open, and just the presence of the second aircraft carrier and the Marine Expeditionary Force will be enough to dissuade iran from any repeat of the foolishness of the early 1980s when they tried and failed to curtail the flow of oil through these straits.
0 Replies
 
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Jan, 2007 04:11 pm
Yes, George OB, 'tis I - sorry my old name was no longer available.

And, Frank, the question after the "hello" to you was addressed to someone else; I know you very well, just didn't have your e-mail address to let you know my new name. Sorry.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Jan, 2007 04:26 pm
George wrote:


Quote:
Criticize Bush if you wish, but you would impress me more if you put it in a context of how alternatively we should deal with the challenge presented to the West by a Moslem world caught in backward authoritarian and theocratic political models, and, -- angry at both its own backwardness and the evils inflicted on it by European colonialism and European-inspired Zionism. -- looking for someone to blame for its troubles.


I'm not particularly interested in impressing you, George, although Bernie has given me reason to understand that you are a person worthy of respect…and I do intend to do that even if I have my little bit of fun once in a while.

The notion that this war was the result of envisioning some distant menace that ought properly to be dealt with in this way…really leads to a huge kettle of fish. I dare say there are hundreds, perhaps thousands of things (many including invasions of other countries) that ought to be undertaken if we take that tack.

But it is a horrible means of achieving whatever it is you think ought to be achieved.

This war, George, was a complete screw up right from the start…and many, many of us, including the moron's father warned that undertaking it probably would lead to a situation where every conceivable alternative for disengagement would be HORRIBLE to contemplate.

We are at that juncture, George. EVERY alternative available to us sucks big time.

To suggest that I, or the congress, or anyone else come up with alternatives that are palatable is absurd.

In any case, as regards the "…Moslem world caught in backward authoritarian and theocratic political models…"…I think the one thing we shouldn't do is what we've already done…throw fuel on the fire by destroying one of the entities that, although by no means perfect, was working to keep secularism in force over the theocrats…and essentially being an ally against **** like Al Queada. We have ravaged a country that was working about as well as any country over in that area…and turned it into chaos. The strongman was needed there…and is needed now. We need a replacement for Saddam…and whoever it is is going to have to solidify his position by killing tons of people opposed to his dictatorship.

Jesus, George…recognize that Bush has screwed this situation up about as much as anyone could without having strategic plans to do so.

Recognize that he has essentially wasted almost a half trillion dollars of our money in the effort…and that we are now less safe from terror than we were before he started the fiasco.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Jan, 2007 04:28 pm
High Seas wrote:
Yes, George OB, 'tis I - sorry my old name was no longer available.

And, Frank, the question after the "hello" to you was addressed to someone else; I know you very well, just didn't have your e-mail address to let you know my new name. Sorry.


Just realized who you are...and happy to see you here! I thank George for the clue! Twisted Evil
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Jan, 2007 05:00 pm
Quote:

We are at that juncture, George. EVERY alternative available to us sucks big time.

To suggest that I, or the congress, or anyone else come up with alternatives that are palatable is absurd.


Right ON Frank!

The reason that you don't see countries starting war over 'looming threats' is, of course, the horrible consequences of war and the immense immorality of the entire enterprise.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
blueflame1
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Jan, 2007 05:17 pm
Israel Warns Russia on Iran Arms Sale

Turkish Weekly
Wednesday, January 17, 2007

Voicing extreme concern over Russia's recent sale of advanced anti-aircraft missiles to Iran, senior diplomatic and defense officials warned Moscow Tuesday that the deal could have serious security implications that would even "get back to Russia."

Senior officials in Jerusalem said they "were not pleased" with the sale of the anti-aircraft missiles, but that Russia was a sovereign country and they could not intervene. They did, however, issue a warning: "We hope they understand that this is a threat that could come back to them as well."

Earlier Tuesday, Russian Defense Minister Sergei Ivanov said Moscow had sent air defense missiles to Teheran, the first high-level confirmation that their delivery took place despite US complaints. Ivanov did not specify how many missile systems had been delivered.

"We have delivered short-range Tor-M1 missiles to Iran in accordance with the contract," Ivanov told reporters.

The Tor-M1 is an advanced anti-aircraft system that can identify up to 48 targets and fire at two targets simultaneously, at altitudes of up to 6,000 meters.

Defense officials predicted the systems would be used to defend Iran's nuclear facilities, particularly the uranium enrichment center at Natanz. The officials said that while the missiles were advanced and "highly-capable," the Israel Air Force was "well-trained" and knew how to deal with multiple and varied threats.

Russian officials previously said Moscow would supply 29 of the sophisticated missile systems to Iran under a $700 million contract signed in December 2005, according to Russian media reports.

"If the Iranian leadership has a desire to purchase more defensive weapons, we would do that," Ivanov said, without elaborating.

The United States called on all countries last year to stop all arms exports to Iran, as well as end all nuclear cooperation with it, to pressure Teheran to halt uranium enrichment.

Foreign Ministry spokesman Mark Regev said Israel "would be concerned at any arms sales to the extremist regime in Teheran, a regime that has already been sanctioned by the international community because of its ongoing and flagrant violations of UN Security Council resolutions."

Russian officials said the missiles were purely defensive weapons with a limited range, and argued that the Tor-M1 deal, involving conventional weapons, did not violate any international agreements.

"We are developing military-technical cooperation with Iran based on international law," they said.

Russian media have reported previously that Moscow had conducted talks on selling even more powerful long-range S-300 air defense missiles to Teheran, but Russian officials have denied that. Moscow already has a $1 billion contract to build the Bushehr nuclear power plant, Iran's first.
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Jan, 2007 06:00 pm
Did I read this correctly?

Quote:
Foreign Ministry spokesman Mohammad- Ali Hosseini
said Iran "would be concerned at any arms sales to the extremist zionist regime, a regime that has already been sanctioned by the international community because of its ongoing and flagrant violations of UN Security Council resolutions."
0 Replies
 
candidone1
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Jan, 2007 06:07 pm
High Seas wrote:
P.S. the only US politician I could locate who called Ahmedinejad a "madman" is Senator Voinovich of Ohio >
http://blog.thehill.com/2006/12/12/mahmoud-ahmadinejad-is-a-madman/
> and I don't see him calling for any more "war, war, war", or claiming to represent "the right" in toto.

Any more sources would be welcome.


Kindly direct me to any fragment of my statement in which I referred to "the right" synonymously with "a US politician", or direct me to any fragment, impled or otherwise, in which I took from that bunch their opinions on war.

The right, and those who are still beating the war drums, are abundant in these fora, and if you still need a source for the following statement:

candidone1 wrote:
The American right seems so hungry for war, war of any kind, and war at any cost, that they forget that it is they who have labelled Ahmadinejad a "madman".


...it was me who said it.
0 Replies
 
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Jan, 2007 09:08 am
Candidone - begging your pardon; I mistook you for someone who reads English.
0 Replies
 
blueflame1
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Jan, 2007 10:48 am
ElBaradei Frets Over Sanctions on Iran http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/18/AR2007011800246.html
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Apr, 2007 05:29 pm
Steve 41oo wrote:
oralloy wrote:

Israel and the US have no nuclear ambitions beyond international law.

So they say. Which funnily enough is exactly what the Iranians say too. So there is no need for any nastiness is there boys?


The Iranians are lying.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Apr, 2007 05:29 pm
High Seas wrote:
Hello Frank (new name, not sure if you know it yet).

Oralloy - last time I was on this forum (years ago, with a name that's no longer available) you mentioned on a discussion on nuclear weapons designs that you are Israeli; perhaps I'm mistaken however.

In any event if either you or GeorgeOB could address the commentary in a report much-read in financial circles >

http://www.rawprint.com/images/Iran07a.pdf

> from ING dated January 9th and entitled "Attacking Iran" I'm sure the whole thread would appreciate it.


Not Israeli. American Catholic.

The article is no longer available, so I can't comment on it.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Apr, 2007 05:34 pm
candidone1 wrote:
Oralloy, judging the tone of your last point, I hope you aren't arguing that because the US could "bomb Iran without sailing our surface ships within the range of their missiles", it'll either be done, or it'll be done without a major fight from Iran.


If we bomb from afar, I don't know that Iran can do terribly much about it.

I have no idea if we will do it. Iran certainly has it coming, but there are factors that argue against it.



candidone1 wrote:
What will become of the US if the international community continues to witness repeated attempts by Ahmadinejad to engage in dialogues with Bush, and rather than granted dialogue, are engaged in war?


The US will be just fine.
0 Replies
 
 

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