IT'S TIME FOR UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE

@Advocate,

You have let your hatred come thru again.
You are still mad at the USSC for deciding against you in the Gore case.
You do remember that some of the current members were NOT on the USSC in the Gore decision.

Why are you blaming them?

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@Advocate,

The problem is that Obama, Pelosi, Reid and the rest of the
Obama democrats knowingly deceived the country - they lied.

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@okie,

okie wrote:

"The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey shows that 53% of Likely U.S. voters favor repeal of the health care law, including 43% who Strongly Favor repeal."

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/health_care_law

Incidentally, I got a letter from my insurance company a couple of days ago, informing me of some changes due to Obamacare, and one of them is the removal of a lifetime ceiling on benefits. If I remember right, I think mine was 5 million as it was, which seems to me I would never use it up, either I would be cured or die first anyway. I suspect now that due to that stipulation, the next letter I get will be a drastic rise in insurance premiums. Only a guess, but probably a good one.

Lemme get this straight - you're pissed that your insurance got better?

I also don't understand your logic regarding the 5 million cap. On one hand, you think that that's an impossibly high number that you never really would reach. But you also seem to believe that enough people ARE reaching it, because it's going to make your insurance go up - drastically! Which is it?

Cycloptichorn

2 Replies

@Cycloptichorn,

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Lemme get this straight - you're pissed that your insurance got better?

Cycloptichorn

I think okie may be right. The next letter will advise him of the rate increase. So, as he noted, an almost meaningless (but actuarily sound) lifetime cap will be removed and a large increase in rates will be the result. It is taking some time for insurers and businesses to sort out all the provisions in the law that no one read, and the contiuing unfolding of new regulations authorized by the legislation has not made the process any easier. The tripwire for "changes" to existing plans is set so low that virtually all existing plans will quickly come under these new regulations - insurers and businesses are now figuring this out.

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@georgeob1,

georgeob1 wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Lemme get this straight - you're pissed that your insurance got better?

Cycloptichorn

I think okie may be right. The next letter will advise him of the rate increase.

The majority of Americans have been experiencing rate increases for years, including, I suspect, both of us. You think next year's increase will be because of this lifetime cap being lifted? Where's your evidence that this is true, and it wasn't the factors that lead to last year's increases?

Quote:

So, as he noted, an almost meaningless (but actuarily sound) lifetime cap will be removed and a large increase in rates will be the result. It is taking some time for insurers and businesses to sort out all the provisions in the law that no one read, and the contiuing unfolding of new regulations authorized by the legislation has not made the process any easier. The tripwire for "changes" to existing plans is set so low that virtually all existing plans will quickly come under these new regulations - insurers and businesses are now figuring this out.

While at the same time, they pick up a massive and in many ways healthy mandated customer base. They all stand to profit tremendously from this aspect of the deal, yet you never mention it at all - nor do you work it into your projections.

I tell ya what - the proof is in the pudding, right? Show me the companies going out of business, or whose stocks have plummeted because of the new bill that's passed. After all, if it's as easy as you make it out to be, it isn't as if other investors wouldn't see that as well, right?

Cycloptichorn

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@georgeob1,

We need to go to the single payer plan like all the rest of the western world used and cut the cost per person in half.

Enough of this ripped off by the insurance companies that no one else is stupid enough to allow.

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@Cycloptichorn,

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Lemme get this straight - you're pissed that your insurance got better?

I also don't understand your logic regarding the 5 million cap. On one hand, you think that that's an impossibly high number that you never really would reach. But you also seem to believe that enough people ARE reaching it, because it's going to make your insurance go up - drastically! Which is it?

Cycloptichorn

It will get worse and more expensive. Also the 5 million cap is more than adequate, considering I am close to going onto Medicare anyway, which by the way is in humongous trouble. Have you noticed the reports of massive fraud lately?

When going onto Medicare, I will make sure I have a good supplementary plan.

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Who's doing the fraud, okie?
Medicare does not provide medical services. It PAYS for them. The private sector provides the actual medical services. It's the private sector, the healthcare providers, that are doing the scams, not the government, not the recipients. MEDICAL PRIVATE ENTERPRISE is screwing over the system, and your tax dollars, okie, not the government.

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@MontereyJack,

okie's one-track mind can't see that Medicare fraud is not the government; it's the providers that overcharge for services - not provided, duplicated, or charged at a higher rate.

okie doesn't understand that insurance fraud happens frequently, and it's not the government who is defrauding the insurance company.

1 Reply

What's exactly a "lifetime ceiling on benefits"?

That you wont get more than a certain sum during your life, whatever happens?

(The question may sound stupid, but I've never heard of such, neither with private nor mandatory health insurances here.)

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@Walter Hinteler,

Have you never seen a private insurance contract?! All insurance contracts, barring none, ever, include a limit per occurrence, a limit per claims, or both. In Germany what you call "private" medical insurers really have as a backstop the German state - since medical insurance is ultimately funded by taxpayers, i.e. constitutes a general obligation of the state. If the limit per claims is lifted by law - as is being attempted in the 3,000-page Obamacare boondoggle - the actuarial calculation for premia automatically rises to compensate for increased risk of insurer insolvency. You can do your own parametric testing on this site: http://demonstrations.wolfram.com/TheEfficientDualLimitLiabilityInsuranceContract/

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@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

What's exactly a "lifetime ceiling on benefits"?
That you wont get more than a certain sum during your life, whatever happens?...

That's exactly what it means. On the above link, if you click on related item "moral hazard" you'll find out how sigma for extra premium works:

Quote:

The idea is to assume various levels of σ ...and try to find the levels of indemnity, premium and care condition that result in the highest level of insured wealth that doesn't result in the insurer's profit becoming negative.

E.g.: parents warned that a pregnancy will result in birth of a someone severely retarded - whose care costs will exceed within a very few years the lifetime limit available to them - will consider the possibility of aborting that fetus much more seriously than parents faced with no such limit. It's simple math.

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@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

okie doesn't understand that insurance fraud happens frequently...

Seems to me Okie does understand the government's smoke-and-mirrors accounting. Fraud investigations by private insurers are included in their overhead costs - but Medicare / Medicaid (both actuarially bankrupt) never carry these costs: they're borne by local DAs and the FBI on their own budgets.

1 Reply

IT'S TIME TO REPEAL OBAMA's UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE.

1 Reply

@H2O MAN,

H2O - Sure Obamacare should be repealed, but Congress must also be able to override Obama's veto. Go out there, help with voter turnout NOW!

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@High Seas,

Quote:

Fraud investigations by private insurers are included in their overhead costs

Sure.. and no one is ever prosecuted for insurance fraud...

Drunk

1 Reply

@parados,

Can you prove that assertion? The main function of such investigations by private sector insurers is to deny fraudulent claims or those that violate or exceed the terms of the contract. In general they are very effective at that. Only the government dishes out hundreds of millions in response to frauduloent claimsd and then calls in the FBI after the fact.

1 Reply

@Walter Hinteler,

A lifetime ceiling is a set amount that the insurance company will pay for a single patient. In the case of cancer or a catastrophic accident, the ceiling means that the patient is potentially liable for hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of medical bills.

Medical bills are among the chief reasons for declaring bankruptcy in this country.

1 Reply

@plainoldme,

I believe the major cause of bankruptcy in our country is a) loss of jobs, b) wages remaining stagnant, and c) higher cost of health care.

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@cicerone imposter,

Quote:

believe the major cause of bankruptcy in our country is a) loss of jobs, b) wages remaining stagnant, and c) higher cost of health care.

Un-insurance medical bills had always been a major reason for people to file for bankruptcy and when I get the chance I will google the figures unless someone does it before I get around to it.

1 Reply

IT'S TIME FOR UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE

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