IT'S TIME FOR UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE

Let me try to clarify. If an individual buys health insurance privately, I don't know if occupation affects the premium rate, or not. If the same person participates in an employee group insurance, everyone in the group with the same maritial status has the same rate. This is why the COBRA requirement that the employee can continue at the company rate for either 18 or 36 months is valuable.

Yes, workers's comp is entirely separately. Each job classification carries it's own rate, and is modified by the company's experience rating.

If you are an employer with truckers on the payroll, there is a good chance you are accidently being double billed. The vehicle policy stands in place of workers' comp, at least in New Mexico. You might raise this issue as you could be due a substantial refund from the W/C carrier for several years in the past.

They got prescription coverage as part of the company retirement plan instead of Medicare. Less cost out of one pocket; more from another.

What do you think exchange means?

Didn't Obama tell us that 5 out of 5 Doctors approved of his health plan?

Didn't we see all of the Doctors dressed in white sucking up to Obama on TV?

Well, something is amiss here:


A group of nearly 5,000 American physicians is filing
suit to stop the mammoth new law dead in its tracks.



.

I believe that insurance is higher for some trades and professions.

Uh oh. They may be getting a subpoena from Waxman. All 5,000 of 'em LOL.

And true to a dictator's mindset, he handed out the uniforms for them to wear.

C yclops knows nothing about Health in the USA as compared to Health in other countries. Cyclops thinks that all families in the USA are like the Brady Bunch. He does not know that we are far far more diverse than most countries like Norway, Sweden, Iceland, etc. etc.

Here is an answer for Cyclops:

A:
Patients who have adequate insurance, and who live in an appropriate location, can receive the best healthcare in the world. These patients have good access to tertiary-care hospitals with the most modern equipment for both diagnosis and treatment. Modern drug therapy, telemetry, and highly skilled professionals are readily available. The US is a world center for the most sophisticated surgical services, and most procedures can be performed with minimal delay. In one or two areas, such as breast and cervical cancer survival, the US is clearly the world leader.


But the system is not uniform in its quality of care, and may vary according to type of insurance and to location. Patients in rural areas where there is a shortage of all types of healthcare personnel, and patients who have no or inadequate insurance coverage, get care below the national standard. (About one-fifth of the US population lives in areas that have a shortage of primary healthcare professionals. This is particularly true in rural areas.) Uninsured patients may have access to ER care, but unless they require immediate hospitalization, may get little or no follow-up care.

***************************************************************
Paragraph One--THE BEST HEALTH CARE IN THE WORLD

PARAGRAPH TWO--The system is not uniform in its quality of care and may vary according to type of insurance and to location.

***************************************************************************Let's change that slightly.

NEW paragraph one--THE BEST LIVING STANDARD IN THE WORLD FOR THOSE PEOPLE WHO ARE EDUCATED, NOT ON WELFARE AND DID NOT SNEAK ACROSS THE BORDER.

New Paragraph Two--The government, in its wisdom, but with the ASSENT OF ITS CONSTITUENTS, may, of course. levy some taxes to help the unfortunate but free loaders, welfare professionals, and undocumented aliens are NOT the unfortunate.

Obamacare is aiming to make everyone equal in their access to Health Care despite the fact that some people have worked all of their lives and saved and scraped so that they would have good insurance coverage.
Obamacare would place us all on waiting lists, to see government appointed doctors in hospitals not of our choice.

Those who do not believe this can easily discover the terrible conditions in countries that have Socialized Medicine such as England and Canada. It is widely known that one can, in catastrophic cases, get fairly good care in both of those countries, but, as has been documented many many times, if you have an extremely painful hip or knee and need a replacement, prepare to wait a year or more in Canada.

Cyclops knows NOTHING about Health care. He probably gets it free.

No chance. They would bury Waxman or, at the very least, get him an operation for his nose.

You are quite right, H2O man. Note the following:


Quote
It looks as if it is not just state attorneys general that are filing a lawsuit against the new health care law recently passed by the Democrats and signed into law by President Obama. The Association of American Physicians and Surgeons (AAPS) put out the following statement:

The Association of American Physicians and Surgeons (AAPS) became the first medical society to sue to overturn the newly enacted health care bill, the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (PPACA). AAPS sued Friday in the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia (AAPS v. Sebelius et al.).

*********************************************************************

We do not know if these suits will be successful, H2o man, but we can be sure that it will keep the fact that Obamacare smells badly before the American People. Check out the polls. Recent CNN poll 56% disapprove of Obamacare; 42 % approve.

And when people discover that their insurance rates are going up rapidly; that the companies they work for are firing workers because the costs for them on Health Care are rising so rapidly; and when the Millions of 401K holders are watching the stocks of the companies like Caterpillar, Verizon and ATT which have been battered, the will become more angry when they read what is happening to the suits of the Doctors and the Attorney Generals in the courts of the US. Obama does not know we are a free people and we will use the judicial branch of the government if we feel we are being mistreated and the constitution subverted.

Cyclops can only rant his own mistaken opinions. He never gives anydata or quotes. I don't think he knows how!

I liked my post, so post it again, an absolute truth, to see if the thumbs downer will again lack the courage to face the truth and will thumbs it down again, ha ha.

Say, that's right. I often go back a page or so and improve those ratings. I think I'll just leave them alone this time. It shows, well, it shows something or other.

Thank you, aurorell. You are quite right. Massachusetts has the highest health care costs in the world!!

Walter Hinteler wrote:

The principle behind it is of course sourced in the Christian tradition of solidarity.

Yes, of course, exactly--the principle of Solidarity. But I do not locate this principle primarily or only in the Christian tradition. In more recent times, Solidarity is more closely allied to:

Walter Hinteler wrote:
quote
The principle behind it is of course sourced in the Christian tradition of solidarity.
end of quote
Yes, of course, exactly--the principle of Solidarity. But I do not locate this principle primarily or only in the Christian tradition. In more recent times, Solidarity is more closely allied to left leaning or Communist movements. But the Germans, as the leading peoples in Europe and perhaps the world, can show us how to live. After all, most of the ideas which have suffused the modern world have come from Germany.

One size fits all.

The matter has been presented on our News broadcasts as if Mr Obama has introduced something along the lines we have in the UK.

From reading this thread it looks to me as if he has completely bottled it and has possibly created a more confused and more hopeless situation than the one before.

Once you have health insurance run by private companies for profit you are bound to bring in actuarial services. After that it gets hopeless.

As I suggested early on in this thread, UHC looks impossible under the US political system. Fudges can only make matters worse. The very idea of a bunch of organised doctors or a bunch of organised anything challenging a House of Commons vote is unthinkable. " Who do they think they are?" we would ask. They get told what to do like the rest of us.

And their status and income and working conditions have improved by leaps and bounds as has their expertise.

It actually wasn't an assertion - that's why I said "I think...". That being said, I doubt the public will allow for the types of changes that need to be made. Healthcare will have to be rationed. There will have to be a dollar amount assigned to a year of life. The government will not be able to afford hip replacements for every 85 year old person that wants one. It will need to decide if it is "worth" the surgery. That's just an example, but there are plenty of other incredibly expensive things that may fall into this rationed category.



Are you sure they aren't genetically healthier? I'm not sure how you can know this. Example: I would say the population of Europe or the US is innately more "genetically" healthy than the population of Africa for the simple reason that white people cannot get sickle cell. There are also studies that found people of European decent are naturally more resistant to HIV. This was attributed to having overcome the black plague.

And even accepting that there is no genetic difference, the lifestyle choices are a HUGE factor. And it doesn't matter if there is anything people can do about it or not. I've argued all over this thread the opposite - that people in this country CAN and NEED TO take responsibility for their health. You actually argued that they shouldn't have to if they don't want to.



You sure? Is it that people are quitting smoking or that they are dying off and younger people simply aren't starting?



It actually wasn't an assertion - that's why I said "I think...". That being said, I doubt the public will allow for the types of changes that need to be made. Healthcare will have to be rationed. There will have to be a dollar amount assigned to a year of life. The government will not be able to afford hip replacements for every 85 year old person that wants one. It will need to decide if it is "worth" the surgery. That's just an example, but there are plenty of other incredibly expensive things that may fall into this rationed category.



Are you sure they aren't genetically healthier? I'm not sure how you can know this. Example: I would say the population of Europe or the US is innately more "genetically" healthy than the population of Africa for the simple reason that white people cannot get sickle cell. There are also studies that found people of European decent are naturally more resistant to HIV. This was attributed to having overcome the black plague.

And even accepting that there is no genetic difference, the lifestyle choices are a HUGE factor. And it doesn't matter if there is anything people can do about it or not. I've argued all over this thread the opposite - that people in this country CAN and NEED TO take responsibility for their health. You actually argued that they shouldn't have to if they don't want to.



I actually made no claim as to what leads to longer life. I never mentioned lifespan until now. You are putting words in my mouth.
I'd like to point out that "life expectancy" and "health" are not the same thing.
Again, "dollars spent" does not in ANY way equate to better or worse healthcare.
Even supposing Britain and France have higher-fat diets than us (which I don't know to be true), the rate of obesity in THIS country is far greater - by 7 and 20 percent, respectively.

For the record, you can't actually know that they manage anything "better" than we do.



How are those parasites any different from the ones who suck endless dollars out of the government for healthcare? At least the people with jobs contribute to the system by way of taxes. I don't know how you can even say such a thing and argue for expansion of government healthcare like you are with a straight face. It's ridiculous.



How exactly do you measure the "quality" of healthcare ?

When people make statements like that, I wonder what world they truly live in.
Have you ever checked your health insurance policy sstain? It clearly rations what care you can get and in most cases also restricts where you can get it.

Yes, I'm aware. Though, I also pay for my insurance (which I don't use). I was more speaking to the governmental types like Medicaid and Medicare.

If you already knew that then your argument makes no sense.

Health care is rationed now. Arguing that it will still be rationed isn't much of an argument, is it?