65
   

IT'S TIME FOR UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE

 
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Mar, 2010 04:08 pm
@mysteryman,
mysteryman wrote:

Quote:
Quite a few doctors make over a million per year.


And this is a problem for you?
Considering all the scholing that a doctor has, then consider the unusual hours a dr can work, especially someone that delivers babies, they are entitled to get paid for their work and knowledge.

If you think a doctor is getting paid to much, then dont go to the dr and dont give him any money.



I didn't say or imply that it is a problem for me. But I guess it is for Medicare and insurance companies, which might consider the charges by those doctors somewhat excessive.

Walter Hinteler
 
  0  
Reply Tue 9 Mar, 2010 04:13 pm
@roger,
According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the hourly mean wage of a general practitioner in New Mexico is $75 ( e.g. $80 at offices and $85 at outpatient care centres).
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  0  
Reply Tue 9 Mar, 2010 04:21 pm
Nearly 75% of doctors accepted new Medicare patients in 2008.

http://www.fiercehealthfinance.com/story/study-most-physicians-still-accepting-medicare-patients/2009-09-08
sstainba
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Mar, 2010 04:29 pm
@Advocate,
Advocate wrote:


And it will continue to drop unless congress does something about the reimbursement cuts.
0 Replies
 
sstainba
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Mar, 2010 04:31 pm
@Advocate,
Advocate wrote:

mysteryman wrote:

Quote:
Quite a few doctors make over a million per year.


And this is a problem for you?
Considering all the scholing that a doctor has, then consider the unusual hours a dr can work, especially someone that delivers babies, they are entitled to get paid for their work and knowledge.

If you think a doctor is getting paid to much, then dont go to the dr and dont give him any money.



So you think that doctors simply make up an amount they want to get paid? That's not really how it works. You need to read up on how physicians bill. There are a TON of laws and requirements regarding billing procedures, billing codes and all sorts of other things that have to be taken into account.
I didn't say or imply that it is a problem for me. But I guess it is for Medicare and insurance companies, which might consider the charges by those doctors somewhat excessive.


0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Mar, 2010 07:14 pm
Limbaugh announced that he will leave the country should HC reform get passed. I guess I will have to work very hard for its passage. Interestingly, he mentions Costa Rica as a possible destination, although that country has universal.

http://www.aolnews.com/nation/article/rush-limbaugh-says-hell-leave-the-us-if-health-care-reform-is-passed/19389808?icid=main|htmlws-main-n|dl1|link3|http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aolnews.com%2Fnation%2Farticle%2Frush-limbaugh-says-hell-leave-the-us-if-health-care-reform-is-passed%2F19389808
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Mar, 2010 07:23 pm
@Advocate,
Advocate wrote:

Nearly 75% of doctors accepted new Medicare patients in 2008.



That means 25% won't - a significant number. Now I wonder wehat the forthcoming 20% arbitrary reduction in payment rates will do to that number.

There is no free lunch. Government will introduce more and more arbitrary constraints that will degrade the quality of care more and more, but it will always have something to "fix", something to enable it to continue claiming it is "helping" those dependent on it - and ways of rewarding its favored constituents.
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Mar, 2010 07:55 pm
@sstainba,
That is not an argument.
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  0  
Reply Tue 9 Mar, 2010 07:58 pm
@mysteryman,
All that means is the a great many uneducated people are easily victimized by propaganda and lack short term memories. Consider that the Clintons proposed health care reform, then the idea languished for the eight years of the bush administration, only to revive during the Obama administration. If the Republicans had so many great ideas, why didn't they bring them out while their boy was in the WH? After all, he ran on the notion of being a compassionate conservative!
plainoldme
 
  0  
Reply Tue 9 Mar, 2010 08:00 pm
@Advocate,
Why should a little thing like a fact stand in limbaugh's way?
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  0  
Reply Wed 10 Mar, 2010 05:24 am
@plainoldme,
What does any of that have to do with what I posted?
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  0  
Reply Wed 10 Mar, 2010 06:29 pm
From the WH:

8 -- that's the number of people every minute who are denied coverage, charged a higher rate or otherwise discriminated against because of a pre-existing condition.1

8 is also the number of lobbyists hired by special interests to influence health reform for every member of Congress in 2009.2

The facts speak for themselves -- the status quo isn't working, and special interests are doing everything in their power to maintain that status quo.
0 Replies
 
sstainba
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Mar, 2010 06:34 pm
Charging people more for pre-existing conditions is no more "discrimination" than charging a guy a higher premium for car insurance because he has a DUI... or chaing a male more than a female.

Suggesting that insurance companies shouldn't be able to change more for pre-existing conditions is like saying it should be legal to set your house on fire and THEN get homeowners insurance to cover the damages. It's ridiculous.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Mar, 2010 06:41 pm
@sstainba,
sstainba wrote:

Charging people more for pre-existing conditions is no more "discrimination" than charging a guy a higher premium for car insurance because he has a DUI... or chaing a male more than a female.


Well, your first is an option (pre-existing conditions many times are not optional) and the second clearly is discrimination.

Quote:
Suggesting that insurance companies shouldn't be able to change more for pre-existing conditions is like saying it should be legal to set your house on fire and THEN get homeowners insurance to cover the damages. It's ridiculous.


No, your analogy is ridiculous.

C'mon. You're going to tell my cousin with Asthma that it's her fault? And that she deserves to pay many multiples of what someone else does, with no recourse? Bullshit.

Cycloptichorn
sstainba
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Mar, 2010 06:54 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:

sstainba wrote:

Charging people more for pre-existing conditions is no more "discrimination" than charging a guy a higher premium for car insurance because he has a DUI... or chaing a male more than a female.


Well, your first is an option (pre-existing conditions many times are not optional) and the second clearly is discrimination.

Quote:
Suggesting that insurance companies shouldn't be able to change more for pre-existing conditions is like saying it should be legal to set your house on fire and THEN get homeowners insurance to cover the damages. It's ridiculous.


No, your analogy is ridiculous.

C'mon. You're going to tell my cousin with Asthma that it's her fault? And that she deserves to pay many multiples of what someone else does, with no recourse? Bullshit.

Cycloptichorn


As I stated earlier, the VAST MAJORITY of healthcare dollars spent in this country are due to completely avoidable illness. Smoking is an option. Overeating is an option.

My boyfriend has asthma too. It wasn't his fault, but he still understands that it's a chronic illness that is his burden, not that of the tax payer.

It sucks that your cousin has asthma, but the bottom line is that it costs more to treat her and so the insurance companies should be allowed to charge her more. It may not be her fault she has the disease, but it also is that of the insurance company. So if your argument is that your cousin shouldn't have to pay for something that isn't her fault, why should the insurance company have to pay for something that isn't their fault ?
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Mar, 2010 10:35 am
@sstainba,
It isn't her fault that she has to eat to survive either. I wonder if Cyclo would conclude that it is the state's duty to feed her.
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Thu 11 Mar, 2010 10:39 am
@sstainba,
Quote:

My boyfriend has asthma too. It wasn't his fault, but he still understands that it's a chronic illness that is his burden, not that of the tax payer.


Who said anything about the taxpayer? They pay premiums just like anyone else does for their health insurance.

Quote:

It sucks that your cousin has asthma, but the bottom line is that it costs more to treat her and so the insurance companies should be allowed to charge her more. It may not be her fault she has the disease, but it also is that of the insurance company. So if your argument is that your cousin shouldn't have to pay for something that isn't her fault, why should the insurance company have to pay for something that isn't their fault ?


It doesn't cost that much more to treat her, and the insurance companies are extremely profitable. The insurance company's reason for existing is to amortize the costs of health care over many different individuals, reducing the cost for each individual's care.

I for example cost my insurance company practically nothing. Almost all the money I give them (my employer, really) goes straight into profit for them. And there are a lot of people like me out there.

Therefore I find your argument to be unconvincing. Perhaps if the industry wasn't profiting in the billions of dollars every year, you might have a point about them not being able to soak up costs of more expensive clients. As things stand it doesn't really reflect reality. And it also doesn't reflect the reality of insurance companies in other countries; they certainly seem to cover everyone without much of a problem. Check out Germany if you want to see what I mean.

As an aside, for those who claim that the Senate HC bill will increase the deficit, the CBO has once again released a scoring which shows this to be untrue:

http://cboblog.cbo.gov/?p=488

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Mar, 2010 10:40 am
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:

It isn't her fault that she has to eat to survive either. I wonder if Cyclo would conclude that it is the state's duty to feed her.


The state has already concluded that, George. Or perhaps you are unaware of Food Stamps, Earned Income Credits, and welfare? We already do feed people who can't afford to feed themselves, because the benefits of doing so outweigh the benefits of letting people starve to death - which is what you seem to be advocating here?

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Mar, 2010 10:54 am
What has all the above got to do with Universal Health care?

You're all arguing about the fine print of not having UHC. UHC does away with the lot of it.

The idea that the US can't afford UHC is tantamount to declaring it a failed state.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Mar, 2010 10:57 am
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

What has all the above got to do with Universal Health care?

You're all arguing about the fine print of not having UHC. UHC does away with the lot of it.

The idea that the US can't afford UHC is tantamount to declaring it a failed state.


I agree with you, for once.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
 

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