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IT'S TIME FOR UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE

 
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Aug, 2007 05:57 pm
Anyone here who thinks they are profound is sniffing glue.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Aug, 2007 06:04 pm
Advocate: CI thinks he is profound, but is often foolish and wrong.

Please provide me with any of my posts that is "foolish and wrong?" Since you said "often," it should be an easy task for you.
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Aug, 2007 06:09 pm
Foolish and wrong being close to an oxymoron -- I've observed that foolish people can accidentally be right and people who are right can also be foolish.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Aug, 2007 07:21 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
Advocate: CI thinks he is profound, but is often foolish and wrong.

Please provide me with any of my posts that is "foolish and wrong?" Since you said "often," it should be an easy task for you.


Can probably pick one at random.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Aug, 2007 07:43 pm
hamburger wrote:
i will make a simple suggestion and leave it at that :

a health care system that includes EVERY citizen - regardless of current health , health outlook ... you name it - will make for a healthy society .
a healthy society in turn benefits everyone in that society .
i cannot believe that healthy individuals and a healthy society will not also be A BETTER SOCIETY - more productive , just as an example .

of course , not everyone will agree with me on that .
we are living in a relatively free society , so we can all have our own thoughts and ideas .
hbg

First correction, every citizen is included in our health care system.
Secondly, if you are talking about making the health care system free to anyone or everyone, supported by tax dollars, then it does not necessarily follow that everyone receives better health care or a more healthy society.

Using the same philosophy, would universal housing and universal food make for better housing and better food? Would universal availability of cars to everyone make for better cars for everyone?
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Aug, 2007 07:46 pm
okie wrote:
hamburger wrote:
i will make a simple suggestion and leave it at that :

a health care system that includes EVERY citizen - regardless of current health , health outlook ... you name it - will make for a healthy society .
a healthy society in turn benefits everyone in that society .
i cannot believe that healthy individuals and a healthy society will not also be A BETTER SOCIETY - more productive , just as an example .

of course , not everyone will agree with me on that .
we are living in a relatively free society , so we can all have our own thoughts and ideas .
hbg

First correction, every citizen is included in our health care system.
Secondly, if you are talking about making the health care system free to anyone or everyone, supported by tax dollars, then it does not necessarily follow that everyone receives better health care or a more healthy society.

Using the same philosophy, would universal housing and universal food make for better housing and better food? Would universal availability of cars to everyone make for better cars for everyone?


First of all, every citizen is included in EMERGENCY care. You know that is not the same as healthcare. You are choosing to be intentionally DISHONEST here, which is shameful.

Universal cars would make for a more mobile society.
Universal housing would make for a more sheltered society.
Universal food would make for a less hungary society.
Universal healthcare would make for a more healthy society.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Aug, 2007 07:57 pm
maporsche wrote:

First of all, every citizen is included in EMERGENCY care. You know that is not the same as healthcare. You are choosing to be intentionally DISHONEST here, which is shameful.

I know that. I merely remind you that people are not without health care, and many people go to ERs for non-emergencies on a regular basis. It may not be what you want, but it is health care.

Quote:
Universal cars would make for a more mobile society.
Universal housing would make for a more sheltered society.
Universal food would make for a less hungary society.
Universal healthcare would make for a more healthy society.

If you want everyone to drive more inferior cars, live in more run-down homes, and live on limited selection of diet, then yes, it is universal, universal misery.

Give me liberty or give me death.
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Aug, 2007 07:58 pm
Would I be allowed to not participate in universal health care and pay for my own medical care and choose my own doctors?
0 Replies
 
old europe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Aug, 2007 08:01 pm
okie wrote:
If you want everyone to drive more inferior cars, live in more run-down homes, and live on limited selection of diet, then yes, it is universal, universal misery.

Give me liberty or give me death.


So far, you have failed to show statistics that would substantiate your claim. Not anecdotal evidence, but representative statistics.

If you claim that universal health care systems are inferior, you should be prepared to give some evidence for that.
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Aug, 2007 08:02 pm
mysteryman wrote:
Would I be allowed to not participate in universal health care and pay for my own medical care and choose my own doctors?


Possibly, it depends on the bill that is passed by congress. I would make sure your representatives understand your concerns. If you don't like the result of your efforts I would encourage you to not stop trying to make a difference.
0 Replies
 
old europe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Aug, 2007 08:04 pm
mysteryman wrote:
Would I be allowed to not participate in universal health care and pay for my own medical care and choose my own doctors?


Depends on the system.

In a mandatory system with statutory and private health insurance companies, you could either pick the statutory health insurance company you like best, or you could opt for a private health insurance company. Usually, there are some strings attached to the second option (like a certain minimum income etc.)

In many universal health care systems, you could also choose your own doctor.
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Aug, 2007 08:04 pm
okie wrote:
maporsche wrote:

First of all, every citizen is included in EMERGENCY care. You know that is not the same as healthcare. You are choosing to be intentionally DISHONEST here, which is shameful.

I know that. I merely remind you that people are not without health care, and many people go to ERs for non-emergencies on a regular basis. It may not be what you want, but it is health care.


I know you know that. That is why I said you were INTENTIONALLY DISHONEST. Shameful. Very Shameful. And no, it is not healthCARE. It's probably not even HEALTHcare, every time I've gone the emergency room I've gotten sick in a few days.


Quote:
Universal cars would make for a more mobile society.
Universal housing would make for a more sheltered society.
Universal food would make for a less hungary society.
Universal healthcare would make for a more healthy society.

If you want everyone to drive more inferior cars, live in more run-down homes, and live on limited selection of diet, then yes, it is universal, universal misery.[/quote]

Those things are possible. They are also UNLIKELY. And you have ZERO proof that these things would happen in any circumstance.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Aug, 2007 08:05 pm
okie wrote:
Secondly, if you are talking about making the health care system free to anyone or everyone, supported by tax dollars, then it does not necessarily follow that everyone receives better health care or a more healthy society.

Using the same philosophy, would universal housing and universal food make for better housing and better food? Would universal availability of cars to everyone make for better cars for everyone?


okie, why do you constantly need to make **** up?

people say what they want to say in their posts - you don't need to add anything to find something to discuss. talk about what's actually in the post - not your own made up crap.

it's disingenuous, and you should know by now that people here aren't stupid enough to fall for it.
0 Replies
 
old europe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Aug, 2007 08:08 pm
mysteryman wrote:
Would I be allowed to not participate in universal health care and pay for my own medical care and choose my own doctors?


Sorry, I misread.

Most likely, you would have to participate in the universal health care system in one or the other way. It would be more difficult to just refuse paying for your health care and instead relying on paying all expenses out of your pocket.

It's possible in some systems, but you would have to show that you are actually able to afford it - so it would usually be tied to your income.
0 Replies
 
old europe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Aug, 2007 08:11 pm
Oh, and what ehBeth said.

okie, if you want to argue against universal health care, it might come in handy to understand what universal health care really is.
0 Replies
 
Miller
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Aug, 2007 08:23 pm
au1929 wrote:
The most efficient and by far the most cost effective health care system is in place and has been since the sixties. Medicare!. Why not devise a health care system based upon it as a model. Cut out the middle man{insurance] companies and with it the profit motive.


Sounds like a good idea, doesn't it? But will happen to elder Americans, when physicians refuse to care for medicare patients, because of the poor payment policies of medicare?
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Aug, 2007 08:24 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
Advocate: CI thinks he is profound, but is often foolish and wrong.

Please provide me with any of my posts that is "foolish and wrong?" Since you said "often," it should be an easy task for you.


Why is it that I must wait for so long for something that should be easy to find and post?
0 Replies
 
Miller
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Aug, 2007 08:26 pm
Miller wrote:
au1929 wrote:
The most efficient and by far the most cost effective health care system is in place and has been since the sixties. Medicare!. Why not devise a health care system based upon it as a model. Cut out the middle man{insurance] companies and with it the profit motive.


Sounds like a good idea, doesn't it? But will happen to elder Americans, when physicians refuse to care for medicare patients, because of the poor payment policies of medicare?



-----------------------------------------------------
Kevin Pho: Cut Medicare payments for doctors, you'll have fewer doctors

By KEVIN PHO

17 hours, 52 minutes ago

MEDICARE is planning to cut physician payment rates by 10 percent in 2008. These reductions will continue annually, and it is predicted that the total cuts will be about 40 percent by 2016.

The topic of physician compensation generally elicits little public sympathy. After all, the average primary care physician salary in 2006 was about $150,000. Who are we to complain about reimbursement? As you will see, however, cuts in physician Medicare payments affect everyone.

Medical practices today essentially function as small businesses. Physicians are responsible for expenses like rent, payroll, employee health insurance and malpractice insurance. These costs are expected to increase 20 percent in the next nine years. During this same time, physician Medicare payments are faced with cuts of 40 percent. Already, some practices lose money every time a Medicare patient is seen. Some may find the link between medicine and money distasteful, but the hard truth is that it is impossible to practice medicine in a business model that is headed for financial disaster.

At a time when baby boomers are approaching the age of 65, some physicians attuned to this economic reality have simply stopped accepting Medicare patients. According to a recent survey by the American Medical Association, 60 percent reported that they would have to limit the number of new Medicare patients they treat due to next year's cut. Half would reduce their staff. Fourteen percent would "completely get out of patient care." Some seniors are already faced with calling 20 to 30 providers in the desperate hope that someone will accept Medicare.

It is unlikely that the primary care shortage will improve in the near future, as Medicare reimbursement rates continue to be a primary driver of physician salary. In a report by the Center for Studying Health System Change, incomes of primary care physicians fared amongst the worst in keeping pace with inflation between 1995 and 2003, while medical specialists fared the best.

Medical students, already burdened with an average debt in excess of $100,000, are clearly gravitating towards specialties where salaries have better kept pace with inflation. The report concludes that with "the diverging income trends between these specialties and primary care, the result is likely to be an imbalance in the physician workforce and perhaps a future shortage of primary care physicians."

Some may be wondering if this is just a "Medicare problem." Should you care if you have private insurance?

Absolutely. With primary care being the backbone of every health system, patients cannot have their chronic medical issues addressed in a timely fashion with a lack of primary care access. In delaying care, chronic diseases blossom into more serious conditions that are forced to be seen in already overcrowded emergency rooms.

Hospital-based care is often the most expensive and the corresponding rise in health care costs plays a major role in the increase of health insurance premiums. Unfortunately, the government responds to rising health care costs by further reducing physician payments and the cycle continues to spiral out of control.

You will hear physicians rallying against the Medicare fee reductions in the coming year. Think about how this affects you. Contact your government representative and do your part to break this vicious cycle.

unionleader.com
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Aug, 2007 09:51 pm
mysteryman wrote:
Would I be allowed to not participate in universal health care and pay for my own medical care and choose my own doctors?


What oe said.

And additionally, you may of course - like in our system - choose the hospital of your choice as well.
0 Replies
 
Miller
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Aug, 2007 10:06 pm
mysteryman wrote:
Would I be allowed to not participate in universal health care and pay for my own medical care and choose my own doctors?


In Massachusetts, we now have, by law, Universal Health Insurance and if you were a resident of this State, you would be required to be covered by a
health insurance plan. Otherwise, you'd be fined.

So, even if you want to pay cash for your care, as you need it and avoid buying health insurance, you couldn't do it if you lived in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts.

Since you live in Kentucky, you can pay for your health care, in cash, as you need it. If you're healthy, there shouldn't be any problem. However, if you should need surgery, chemotherapy, rehab,
etc. you could run into some heavy costs.
0 Replies
 
 

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