IT'S TIME FOR UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE

@Walter Hinteler,

Yes they do. But the higher their costs are the greater is the X% servicing fees and thus they have an interest in being over-charged. They make more money and can shift the blame onto a diffused target.

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What can be easily forgotten in the eagerness to sound off as morally superior or economically doctrinal is that Mr Obama is a politician who is in the business of getting re-elected. And a very smart one at that.

His health care proposals are much more likely to be due to a realization that the issue provides the chance to discredit the Republicans rather than be due to a conviction of the justness of the cause he is promoting which would be extremely difficult in those sections of his party which support Darwinianism. Mr Dawkins admitted on Sky News earlier today that the welfare state is counter-evolution. (He also admitted that everything, which must include himself and his doings, is meaningless and to no purpose.)

If Mr Obama can associate the Democrats with a policy which is popular in those sections of the population which are not well off, nor have anything to gain from the present arrangements except a profound feeling of dissatisfaction at being held hostage by accident or sickness, then he is monopolizing for the Democrats a cause which is popular in the constituencies, despite how it looks in disputed meetings of small numbers of activists, and attaching to the Republicans the odium of resisting it. And for a long time.

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@spendius,

That's different here - and in most continental European countries.

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@spendius,

That is absolutely false. It is very, very, clear that our health care system could put our economy in the poor house (more than it already is). Moreover, one in three people are uninsured or underinsured. Over half the bankruptcies are due to unpaid medical bills. We pay double what any other industrial country pays. Obama sees this and is fighting for the well-being of our country. On the other hand, the Reps are out to destroy Obama, country be damn.

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@Advocate,

Quote:

Country Health Care Spending per capita (2005) Health Care Spending/GDP (2005)

.
U.S. $6,401 15.3%
.
Switzerland $4,177 11.6%
.
France $3,374 11.1%
.
Germany $3,287 10.7%
.
Canada $3,326 9.8%
.
Sweden $2,918 9.1%
.
Norway $4,364 9.1%
.
Italy $2,532 8.9%
.
Spain $2,261 8.3%
.
UK $2,724 8.3%

http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pqVgDLeO6WJ1Epmhi4w3rXg

Quote:

Health Care spending as a percentage of GDP is projected to grow 16.0% of GDP in 2006 to 19.5% of GDP in 2017.
Average health care spending per capita was $7026 in 2006 and will grow to $7868 in 2008.

http://healthcare-economist.com/2009/02/11/health-care-spending/

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@Advocate,

Buchanan had a very interesting article in today's newspaper; he stated that rather than have so many things as common in our country, we are now split into issues such as a) gays and lesbians, b) separation of church and state, c) abortion, d) liberals vs conservatives, and e) the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. The current issues that are splitting our country is universal health care and socialism vs capitalism. Congress has now become a battlefield of win vs defeat on any issue; it's no longer about our country or the American People.

We are now headed toward an abyss from which we will not be able to return. We are destroying our own country, and we have seen it when a congressman called Obama a liar as he spoke to both houses of congress; something that has never occurred in the history of our country; there is no longer respect for our president.

We are all party to this destruction.

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@cicerone imposter,

equally troubling is that 1 year after the failure of the debt markets nothing has changed in the financial sector, they are already back to doing the nonsense that created the great recession. The American people through our elected leaders have been unable/unwilling to reform the failed economic system.

We are going to have to fix Washington first, before we can fix everything else that is broken in America. Both Parties must be turned out, replaced, they no longer serve America. It is past time for a little revolution...

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@Walter Hinteler,

Quote:

That's different here - and in most continental European countries.

What's different Walt? Politicians are like surfers. They see a good wave and they get on it.

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@spendius,

I'd thought, you wrote about health insurance companies; at least my response was focused on that.

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Quote:

On the other hand, the Reps are out to destroy Obama, country be damn.

Quote:

We are all party to this destruction.

Quote:

It is past time for a little revolution...

Crikey lads. It can't be that bad.

How would you see a "little revolution" hawk?

1 Reply

@spendius,

Quote:

How would you see a "little revolution" hawk?

'

on the scale and scope of the New Deal. However, to get there I think will require replacing both political parties first.

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@hawkeye10,

There are too many die-hard left and right for anything to change.

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@cicerone imposter,

we have encouraged the radicals, discouraged those who seek to work for the greater good from the center. We could always change course. At some point American are going to get tired of fighting all the time, will decide to work together towards something constructive. It will not happen till Americans get their heads around the fact that we are now in the post American dominance era, until lack of respect from the world finally acts upon our self respect.

At some point we are going to collectively wake up on morning asking ourselves "how in the hell did we ever sink this low", and decide to do something to make America better.

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

Quote:

on the scale and scope of the New Deal.

You meant "little" literally then?

I would shut TV down.

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@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

okie wrote:
One item was an ambulance ride, which did not happen, and that was a few hundred dollars. All of the fraudulant charges would have been paid by the insurance company because they have no way of verification.

I should think at least a none-ambulance ride should be easily noticed.

Not if you are not there and don't know. Sheesh, Walter. They could send anything to the insurance company if they know what will sail through. After all, I think some may do it with Medicare even more.

Quote:

As well as others - here, insurance companies look over the bills (besides that they don't pay more than previously negotiated; otherwise, clear medical reasons must be noted).
Don't American health insurers have something like an auditing/revision department?

Oh yes, but where are they at sometimes? Likely hundreds if not thousands of miles away, so how are they supposed to catch it all? Besides, "they" is probably a bunch of "computers." The billing practice might be something like Obama's rhetoric, a bunch of stuff is thrown at the wall to see how much will stick.

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Quote:

Most U.S. doctors want public-private mix: poll
Reuters

By Gene Emery Gene Emery " Mon Sep 14, 7:10 pm ET

BOSTON (Reuters) " Most U.S. doctors favor having both public and private options in a reformed healthcare system, a survey published on Monday said.

[/b]

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@cicerone imposter,

That stuff is irrelevant CI. Those doctors are obviously a part of the liberal-marxist-communist conspiracy. We should applaud those minority of doctors who had the courage to say what we all are thinking: the truth.

[/Foxfyrism]

T
K
O

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@okie,

okie wrote:

Walter Hinteler wrote:

I should think at least a none-ambulance ride should be easily noticed.

okie wrote:
Not if you are not there and don't know. Sheesh, Walter. They could send anything to the insurance company if they know what will sail through. After all, I think some may do it with Medicare even more.

Quote:

I think your are very, very right. I didn't even know whether my own ambulance trip was considered part of the hospital bill, or billed separately till I got a hospital bill for the co-pay - two months later. The private insurance has never sent me any sort of statement that I could verify, even if I wanted.

From what I have seen of Medicare, they do send enough information to permit verification of dates of service, if anyone is inclined to examine them.

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@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

we have encouraged the radicals, discouraged those who seek to work for the greater good from the center. We could always change course. At some point American are going to get tired of fighting all the time, will decide to work together towards something constructive. It will not happen till Americans get their heads around the fact that we are now in the post American dominance era, until lack of respect from the world finally acts upon our self respect.

At some point we are going to collectively wake up on morning asking ourselves "how in the hell did we ever sink this low", and decide to do something to make America better.

I think Eisenhower said once something to the effect that "Freedom without responsibility is doomed to fail." Those may not be the exact words, but close enough. We may in fact be nearing, or are in fact the downward side of the cycle. Here is something like I was thinking in this link, showing we might be in the apathy to dependence stage? And we are at the point where the majority may want to vote more stuff for themselves at the expense of freedom.

http://www.thepatriotview.com/2009/05/cycle-of-freedom.html

Saturday, May 23, 2009
The Cycle of Freedom
In a new book he is writing, George Pfautsch quotes a Professor Alexander Taylor who supposedly lived at the time of the American revolution. In approximately 1779 this gentleman is reported to have written

A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largess from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.

The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations has been 200 years. These nations have progressed through this sequence:

1. From bondage to spiritual faith.
2. From spiritual faith to great courage.
3. From courage to liberty.
4. From liberty to abundance.
5. From abundance to selfishness.
6. From selfishness to complacency.
7. From complacency to apathy.
8. From apathy to dependency.
9. From dependency back again into bondage.

1 Reply

@okie,

I've got a feeling the quote was from Alexis de Tocqueville, but, whoever said it, it does sound good. Maybe Alex de stole it from Alex Taylor.

1 Reply

IT'S TIME FOR UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE

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