IT'S TIME FOR UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE

Certainly. I never said something different but was responding to George's "incentive to change their bad habits".

No-one here forces anyone to change bad habits. Unfortunately, in my opinion, since such drives health insurance fees up.

But again: it's one of the prices of freedom, you're correct.

c.i. :
as i said , i'm resonable sure that "moderate" exercise is generally good for the human body .
however , i'm astounded to see many young people sitting in the physiotherapist's office with "sports injuries" : busted knees , shoulder dislocations ... you name it .
our physicians and p.t.'s have always told us : "exercise in moderation - and STOP when it hurts because your body is telling you to " .
it's worked reasonably well for us - but mrs h will still need a hip-joint replacement SOON - she's still swimming every morning but had to give up long walks .
we are hoping that soon she will be a completely restored "bionic woman" - we can still laugh .
hbg

I've not "run" for many years, because I know it's too strenuous for me, but I go overboard when I'm working in my yard by carrying too heavy garden materials, and too much activity. I still love to walk, and do my share of it on most of my vacations - whether land or sea. One of our friends just finished with his hip replacement, and can now drive, but still walks very slowly. Before his surgery, he suffered great pain, and did very little walking - with a cane. He now gets PT treatments, and gets more active. It was a problem when he couldn't walk or drive, because his wife doesn't drive, so they had to depend on their son who lives away from home to do their shopping. They came down our way to attend the Mt View Buddhist Church bazaar last month, and joined our annual event. He seems to be recovering quite well, but still limits his walking.

c.i. wrote :



you watch it , bubele !

a good friend of ours - 79 going on 80 - also likes to overdo it in the garden . he has now been diagnosed with "irregular" heatbeat .
the doctors told him that he MUST control his activities - especially NO heavy lifting .
his wife thought he is still fit to lift 50 pounds plus flowerpots - a stent now seems to be next on the list but his wife still thinks "he isn't doing too badly" .

two years ago we were marching 2 to 3 hours a day - no problem - but after turning 76 something seems to have changed ?
old age ? NO WAY !
TAKE IT EASY - the work you don't do today will still be there tomorrow - no one is going to steal it from you overnight :wink: .
hbg

No one is going to "steal" it at any time; I'm lucky that way. LOL

Low salt, low fat diets keep the heart and blood vessels healthy.

I didn't read all the pages about what folks think of universal health care. I know it's a controversial topic and just wanted to offer my three cents worth.

I lived in the states most of my life. Now I am fulltime in Canada. I have to say - I prefer the socialized system of medicine here. The word 'socialized' seems to have negative connotations and I don't know why; maybe someone could edify me on that one.

I have not had to pay one penny for anything, which still blows me away. I have not had wait times and I've even had private rooms. The food sucks, but that's hospitals.

If I'd had to pay out of pocket for the huge medical procedures I've had done in the last few years in Canada, thankfully paid for by my tax dollars, we'd have lost our home by now trying to pay it all back. And probably be back at work trying to pay it off. Canada footed the entire bill altho I'd only been a citizen for less than 6 months. I don't know how people can possibly cope with (1) a serious operation - in my case, three) and (2) wondering how they are going to pay the bill. Even 20% of $300,000 is a huge amount esp when one is older and living on a pension.

The documentary Sicko was trying to make clear that the problem of people not getting the medical treatment they need wasn't about medically UNinsured people, it was about people who did have medical insurance, but were denied treatment because the big cheeses at the insurance companies decided whether they should get cancer or whatever treatment - not the doctors. This is unconscionable. Basically the medical insurance agents are signing people's death warrants. I wonder how they sleep at night?

Medical insurance isn't a luxury for the rich and one shouldn't have to work until they drop to make sure they have it.

Yes, I live in Canada now so why am I commenting? Because my daughter has to pay almost $300 a month just for herself for medical care and she's trying to go to school fulltime. She still has to meet deductibles (this is through Kaiser). Most younger people are uninsured unless their employment happens to cover them and that is still mostly out of pocket high deductibles.

I just think this is unacceptable in a country that can pay such huge amounts to fight a war when they should be taking care of their citizens first.

Now I've probably pissed some people off but I have to speak my mind, so there it is,
Bathsheba

bathsheba, Over and above what you said about "socialized" medical care, I also believe most Americans - especially the conservatives - think it's a 100% government program which is far from the truth or facts.

I'm on Medicare, and can't complain about a) my physician (one of the best I've ever had in my life), b) co-pays are reasonable compared to private insurance "and" co-pays, and c) I've had prostate cancer radiation treatment last year that could have cost about $50,000, and all I paid were for my doctor visits @ $30/per. During the treatment for eight weeks, I had no co-pays. My total drug costs for the year will run about $500; not bad compared to "retail" prices.

CI. what insurance program do you use with Social Security?

Hi cicerone imposter,
I am so glad you have a doctor who treats you well and that your treatment was successful. That was a stressful time I'm sure.

Are you Canadian? If so, what changes would you like to see to our medical system? Besides getting rid of the conservatives, I mean
Bathsheba

And how much is your doctor getting paid, as compared to what his services and tlaents are actually worth?
Is Medicare paying the accepted and standard rate, or are they paying your doctor less then what they should be?

If they are paying him less, how long do you think he can keep his practice open?

How much should a doctor get paid, mysteryman?

(Sure, doctors safe lives. But so do cops. Or fire fighters.)

(And why does it always have to be about money, anyways? I don't think most people decide to become doctors because they want to get rich.)

A doctor should get paid whatever he can get people to pay.
With all of the schooling and training they have to go thru, a Dr's services are worth quite a bit.
Can a cop or a plumber or a firefighter or a lawyer perform the various surgical techniques that a competent surgeon can?

It is all about money, then...

I doubt that a fire fighter would be particularly good at heart surgery, but I'm also not sure that a doctor would be really good at rescuing me from a burning building.

Given specific circumstances, they'd both save my life, though.

How are you going to attach a specific price to those services?

re: prescriptions

Doctors in Canada make a decent living but they certainly don't live high on the hog like doctors do in the states. It ISN'T about money in countries who have socialized medicine. It's about the welfare of people.

Having worked with doctors, some think they are god and should be paid accordingly. The greed factor shouldn't be why someone becomes a doctor. If they don't see patients because that patient doesn't have medical insurance and can't pay I think that's a disgrace. In a country that considers itself so 'advanced' I wonder they can say that when over 40 million people have no insurance. That would be more than the entire population of Canada which is somewhere around 31 million.

Mysterman, medicine is about helping people, not making payments on your BMW or having a house in a posh area of town.

Old Europe, you make a very good point. If you want to talk about people who are paid exorbitant rates for what they do, look at the world of sports and/or entertainment. Now that's a crime. And I wouldn't say that these people have years of schooling and training either, would you, mysterman?

Universal, socialized medicine, call it whatever you like it's all the same, seems to work for the rest of the planet. It's the pharmaceutical industry, insurance companies and the all powerful AMA who don't want change and obviously we know why. $$ the almighty dollar. Not a very Christian nation when kids are left with no medical care.

That's right.

It's a somewhat sickening sight actually and I am very glad your TV companies hide it from view.

I don't mind if doctors earn a lot of money.

It's just that in so many discussions about whether a universal health care system would be desirable, the high salaries of doctors are brought up as a reason for high insurance premiums. And, of course, the high costs of studying medicine as a reason for why doctors should earn that much.

It's tempting to conclude that lowering the costs of studying medicine would therefore lead to making health insurance more affordable.


Now, I don't think that it's as easy as that, but I do think that the American system doesn't really need a lot of tweaking to transform it into a universal health care system. Probably not a nationalized one like in England, or even one that is just semi-socialized as in Canada. But with just some regulations, it should be manageable to transform the system into a statutory system like e.g. the Swiss or the German one.

That's a ridiculous conclusion oe.

We all know what should be done. What is your procedure for manifesting it in action?

What is a ridiculous conclusion? That it would be easier to transform the American system into a mandatory system rather than into a socialized one?

I don't think that's ridiculous. If you want to a mandatory universal health care system, you can leave all the private companies in place. Health insurance companies can be privately run, hospitals can, pharma companies can, and doctors wouldn't be state-employed either.

You'd have to put regulations into place that mandates that health insurers can't turn someone away due to pre-existing conditions. You'd probably have to put some kind of plan into place to assist those in the lowest income bracket. But I'd assume it would be way easier to transform the system in that way rather than to build it anew from scratch, as a state-run system.