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IT'S TIME FOR UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Mar, 2008 11:37 am
Hospitals and doctors who are promoted to administration do not understand efficiency; it continues to carry over from admiistrator to administrator, because their skills are not management by doctoring.

That's one of the reasons why emergency rooms are always packed with people who really should be taken care by a nurse, PA, or intern.
0 Replies
 
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Mar, 2008 04:03 pm
mysteryman wrote:
High Seas wrote:
Hamburger - pls read the whole post before commenting. The reference is to assigning military personnel to permanent civilian occupations.



How are they being assigned to "permanent civilian occupations"?

I specified using active duty "permanent" military medics and using "reserve" medics.
The reservists do 1 weekend a month and 2 weeks in the summer, then they go back to their civilian jobs.
While they are serving, they draw their mlitary pay,so why not use them where they will do the most good?

And as for the active duty"full time" medics, while they are on the base they dont have alot to do, especially if they are assigned to a combat unit.
They handle mostly injuries resulting from training, or they work in the sick bay.

If you are worried about them being asked to treat something they cant handle, I seriously doubt that will happen.
As a former navy corpsman (medic) there wasnt much I couldnt handle.
I have delivered babies, treated trauma, set broken bones, and treated almost every type of minor illness and injury you can think of.

But even so, thats why each station would be equipped with an ambulance, to transport serious cases to a local ER.

I do think it could be done, and I do think it would work.


MM - this is a very old argument, fought over (and lost) most recently by Robert McNamara. Sorry have no time to go into the argument in detail, but the point is that military personnel - active duty or reserve - must have rights and obligations distinct from civilians; of course this doesn't exclude emergency or "second opinion" assignments. You'll see some of the argument in this article:

Quote:

http://www.claremont.org/publications/crb/id.908/article_detail.asp

The argument is of a "prudential" nature, you see. Matter of principle, even if momentary practical expediency seems to point another way.
0 Replies
 
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Mar, 2008 04:15 pm
Walter Hinteler wrote:
High Seas wrote:

It's been tried many times in many countries with dismal results.


Either Germany isn't within those "many countries" or I don't understand "dismal results".
It works perfectly here - and both sides, the military as well as the civilian, like it.


You understand "dismal results", just missed the idea of "emergency" or "fallback position" inherent in the civilian vs. military split.
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Mar, 2008 06:10 pm
Here is an interesting article that shows how the "mandatory health insurance" plan in Mass is severly hurting one hospital chain, and its the one that treats most of the people the plan was supposed to help...

http://www.boston.com/business/healthcare/articles/2008/03/17/health_provider_predicts_big_loss/

Quote:
Cambridge Health Alliance, a key part of the Boston area's healthcare network, is facing a potentially "catastrophic" loss this year and is looking to eliminate up to 300 jobs, or about 9 percent of its workforce, in an effort to stabilize finances.

more stories like thisThe alliance, which includes Cambridge Hospital, Somerville Hospital, and Whidden Hospital in Everett, says it is being hit hard by the state's new healthcare reform law, which has left it responsible for providing free care for those without insurance while reducing the hospitals' compensation for such services.

"A significant downturn in our volume and the transition to the new free care pool reimbursement system created a perfect storm for us," said Dennis D. Keefe, chief executive of the alliance.

Before healthcare reform took effect last year, Keefe said, Cambridge Health Alliance was reimbursed by the state for the full cost of providing services to the uninsured. Under the new system, "we only get 60 to 70 percent," he said. The reduction is particularly significant for the alliance because its hospitals serve a high percentage of uninsured patients. Despite the state's efforts to enroll all low-income residents in free or subsidized insurance programs, many still do not have coverage.
0 Replies
 
Miller
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Mar, 2008 08:15 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
Hospitals and doctors who are promoted to administration do not understand efficiency; it continues to carry over from admiistrator to administrator, because their skills are not management by doctoring.

That's one of the reasons why emergency rooms are always packed with people who really should be taken care by a nurse, PA, or intern.


Most ERs are governed by the triage system, which means the patient will first be seen by an RN.

I've never seen a medical student in the ER and for God's sake, why would a patient with a serious problem ever want to see a med student?

Yikes......................!!
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Mar, 2008 08:36 pm
Miller, If an RN can see an emergency patient, why not an intern?
0 Replies
 
Miller
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Mar, 2008 08:47 pm
mysteryman wrote:
Here is an interesting article that shows how the "mandatory health insurance" plan in Mass is severly hurting one hospital chain, and its the one that treats most of the people the plan was supposed to help...

http://www.boston.com/business/healthcare/articles/2008/03/17/health_provider_predicts_big_loss/

Quote:
Cambridge Health Alliance, a key part of the Boston area's healthcare network, is facing a potentially "catastrophic" loss this year and is looking to eliminate up to 300 jobs, or about 9 percent of its workforce, in an effort to stabilize finances.

more stories like thisThe alliance, which includes Cambridge Hospital, Somerville Hospital, and Whidden Hospital in Everett, says it is being hit hard by the state's new healthcare reform law, which has left it responsible for providing free care for those without insurance while reducing the hospitals' compensation for such services.

"A significant downturn in our volume and the transition to the new free care pool reimbursement system created a perfect storm for us," said Dennis D. Keefe, chief executive of the alliance.

Before healthcare reform took effect last year, Keefe said, Cambridge Health Alliance was reimbursed by the state for the full cost of providing services to the uninsured. Under the new system, "we only get 60 to 70 percent," he said. The reduction is particularly significant for the alliance because its hospitals serve a high percentage of uninsured patients. Despite the state's efforts to enroll all low-income residents in free or subsidized insurance programs, many still do not have coverage.


This "hospital chain" was crappy long before Romney hit the scene with his big plans.
0 Replies
 
Miller
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Mar, 2008 08:49 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
Miller, If an RN can see an emergency patient, why not an intern?


Where did I mention "intern"?
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Mar, 2008 09:10 pm
I said intern, you said med student.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Mar, 2008 09:12 pm
I said, "That's one of the reasons why emergency rooms are always packed with people who really should be taken care by a nurse, PA, or intern."
0 Replies
 
Miller
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Mar, 2008 09:25 pm
If you have a serious medical condition, or you bring a very sick child to the ER, you want the best care available. You don't want a PA, RN ( after triage) or for God's sake an intern.

Mad
0 Replies
 
USAFHokie80
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Mar, 2008 09:37 am
Miller wrote:
If you have a serious medical condition, or you bring a very sick child to the ER, you want the best care available. You don't want a PA, RN ( after triage) or for God's sake an intern.

Mad


like it or not, an intern is a physician. and if you go to a teaching hostpical, you will probably get an intern since they outnumber attendings by a significant number. not to mention, a lot of people that take their "very sick child" to the ED, do not in fact have a "very sick child" and shouldn't be there at all. people run to the ED when their kid has a fever of 100. so what? unless the kid is <1year, it's not an emergency.
0 Replies
 
USAFHokie80
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Mar, 2008 09:38 am
this isn't directly related to the main topic, but it does have to do with german hospitals.

Surgeons give a woman another anus instead of fixing her knee:

http://blogs.usatoday.com/ondeadline/2008/03/german-surgeons.html
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Mar, 2008 09:45 am
USAFHokie80 wrote:
this isn't directly related to the main topic, but it does have to do with german hospitals.


Exactly why has this to do with German hospitals?

And compared to hospitals in where else?
0 Replies
 
old europe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Mar, 2008 09:59 am
USAFHokie80 wrote:
this isn't directly related to the main topic, but it does have to do with german hospitals.


... and with hospitals in the United States. And in other countries.


From the article you linked to:

Quote:
The headlines make light of the woman's misfortune, but medical errors are a real problem in the USA and other countries.

In 1999, the Institute of Medicine reported that mistakes caused the deaths of between 44,000 and 98,000 hospital patients each year. Last Sunday, CBS News spoke with actor Dennis Quaid about the medication errors that almost killed his newborn twins.

Today, the Mercury News reports that an 87-year-old woman died at a Fremont, Calif., hospital after staff gave her four drugs that had been prescribed for other patients. State officials imposed tough sanctions in that case. In Sacramento, the Bee says another hospital was also fined $25,000 because employees gave a 29-year-old woman the wrong medicine and administered 10 times the prescribed dose of an anti-psychotic drug.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Mar, 2008 10:11 am
I could have added more, but ...

Interestingly, that hospital now has neither leading surgeon nor a leading anaesthetist (both led that operation); these departments are headed now by the deputies ...
0 Replies
 
Ramafuchs
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Mar, 2008 03:18 pm
Most of my relatives( Doctors ) had packed their box with half a dozzen BIG MC

Anyone who aspire universal health care in USA is an AMERICAN with unfulfilled DREAM
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Mar, 2008 02:01 am
Rising Health Costs Cut Into Wages
http://i32.tinypic.com/23mpxec.jpg
Source: Washington Post, 24.03.08, page A7
Quote:
[...]
"The way health-care costs have soared is unbelievable," said Katherine Taylor, a vice president for Local 1199 of the Service Employees International Union. "There are people out here making decisions about whether to keep their lights on or buy a prescription."

Since 2001, premiums for family health coverage have increased 78 percent, according to a 2007 report by the Kaiser Family Foundation. Premiums averaged $12,106, of which workers paid $3,281, according to the report.
[...]
0 Replies
 
USAFHokie80
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Mar, 2008 08:33 am
Wow... you guys sure do get defensive... I wasn't trying to slam Germany or anything else, so calm down.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Mar, 2008 08:41 am
You haven't relized yet that only the US is allowed to be criticized yet?
0 Replies
 
 

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