65
   

IT'S TIME FOR UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE

 
 
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Mar, 2008 01:21 pm
whatever the outcome of that case , it's not going to do americans without healthcare or with inadequate healthcare any good !

Quote:
In a matter of hours, Remote Area Medical set up its massive clinic, for a weekend, in an exhibit hall in Knoxville, Tenn. Tools for dentists were laid out by the yard, optometrists prepared to make hundreds of pairs of glasses, general medical doctors set up for whatever might come though the door. Nearly everything is donated, and everyone is a volunteer. The care is free. But no one could say how many patients might show up.

The first clue came a little before midnight. Stan Brock, the founder of Remote Area Medical, opened the gate outside. The clinic wouldn't open for seven hours, but people in pain didn't want to chance being left out. State guardsmen came in for crowd control. They handed out what would become precious slips of paper - numbered tickets to board what amounted to a medical lifeboat.

It was 27 degrees. The young and the old would spend the night in their cars, running the engine for heat, but not much - not at $3 a gallon. At 5 a.m., Pelley took a walk through the parking lot.

"We got up at three o'clock this morning and we got here about four. We've been out where a little while it's cold," Margaret Walls, a hopeful patient from
Tennessee, told Pelley.

"Why did you come so early?" Pelley asked.

"'Cause we wanted to be seen," Walls replied.
.
.
.
But at the gate, many were waiting when the weekend ended.

In the expedition to Knoxville, RAM saw 920 patients, made 500 pairs of glasses, did 94 mammograms, extracted 1,066 teeth and did 567 fillings. But when Stan Brock called the last number, 400 people were turned away.

"What's going through your mind when you're reading off the last two or three numbers and you see so many more people at the gate than are going to be able to come in?" Pelley asked.

"Yeah, you know, that's the lousy part of this job. I mean, it's nice to be able to know that you've helped a bunch of people. But the reality is that we can't do everybody. At the moment, we're just seeing the thousands and thousands of people that we can, and the rest of them, unfortunately, have got to do the best they can without us," Brock said.




if you have the stomach for it , you can read the full article here :

EMERGENCY CLINIC FOR PEOPLE NEEDING URGENT HEALTHCARE
0 Replies
 
Miller
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Mar, 2008 08:13 pm
Did you know that at one time, Michelle Obama was a pre-med, but unfortunately she couldn't handle
Organic chemistry too well.

Embarrassed
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Mar, 2008 07:24 am
Another example of how great the British healthcare system is, and another example of why the US should have nothing to do with it...

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article885671.ece

Quote:
DISGUSTED Andrew Cowper refused to have knee surgery after docs said there could be a dead RAT in the operating theatre.

Andrew, 19, walked out after a consultant apologised for the stench of rotting rodent and assured him staff were trying to find the corpse.


Quote:
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Mar, 2008 10:27 am
mysteryman wrote:
Another example of how great the British healthcare system is, and another example of why the US should have nothing to do with it...


I think that most agree: the NHS has some or even more weak points.

Well, to be honest, mysteryman, the USA only has to do with it when US-citizen get ill within the UK: like anybody else, they get free healthcare in the UK's health care system..

I don't think that any UK-citizen gets such in the USA. (And I've heard that about 40 million US-citzens even don't have any health insurance at all.)

But in the USA, it seems to happen quite often that needles and syringes are used on more than one patient, even a couple was the rule in a Las Vegas hospital, similar in some other hospitals all over the country.
Quote:
"It is astounding that in this day and age there are nurse anesthetists, anesthesiologists, and other healthcare professionals who still risk using needles and syringes on more than one patient, or know of such activities and don't report them," said Wanda Wilson, CRNA, PhD, president of the 37,000 member AANA. "Published standards and guidelines dictate that single-use and disposal of these products is the best way to ensure patient safety. Patient safety is our primary focus --- not cost savings, time savings, or any other factor."


Quote:
On February 29, health officials in Nevada closed the Endoscopy Center of Southern Nevada in Las Vegas after six patients were diagnosed with hepatitis C. The outbreak was traced back to nurse anesthetists reusing syringes to draw up medicine from single-use vials for multiple patients. According to the investigation report of the Southern Nevada Health District, "common practices" were identified that "would allow disease to be transmitted in this manner." Officials are notifying more than 40,000 patients that they should be tested for hepatitis and HIV. (View the investigation report at http://health.nv.gov/.)


Quote:
In November 2007, reports surfaced in the media that anesthesiologist Harvey Finkelstein, MD, a Long Island pain management specialist, was under investigation by the New York State Department of Health for reusing syringes to draw up medicine from multi-dose vials and exposing thousands of patients to blood borne pathogen infection. On December 14, 2007, the Department of Health contacted approximately 8,500 patients who had been treated by Finkelstein prior to January 15, 2005, urging them to be tested for hepatitis and HIV if they had received an injection from the doctor. (View the investigation report at http://www.health.state.ny.us/.) Finkelstein's record in the nine years prior to the reuse investigation included 10 malpractice settlements.


But of course: when you have to pay for such care it certainly is less annoying as if it's free ...
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Mar, 2008 10:31 am
Miller wrote:
Did you know that at one time, Michelle Obama was a pre-med, but unfortunately she couldn't handle
Organic chemistry too well.

Embarrassed



How do you know this? Are you implying that she couldn't reach orgasm?
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Mar, 2008 10:34 am
MM, at least the guy is getting treated. In the USA, one out of three either have no insurance or inadequate insurance.
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Mar, 2008 11:18 am
Advocate wrote:
MM, at least the guy is getting treated. In the USA, one out of three either have no insurance or inadequate insurance.


I dont deny that many Americans dont have health insurance, but I think you 1 out of 3 figure is misleading.

How many people that dont have health insurance CHOOSE to not have it.
They might be young and think they dont need it, or they might simply not want to pay for it.

I think that when those people are factored into the equation, the number of those uninsured goes down by quite a bit.
I have never seen a study that accounts for those who choose not to have insurance, when compared to the total number of those uninsured.


Walter,
I am not implying that the US system is better, I am simply saying that the British system or the EU's system is not neccessarily better then ours, or that ours doesnt need improvement.

I am saying that I personally think that if we let the market work without govt interference, it will fix itself.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Mar, 2008 11:36 am
mysteryman wrote:
Walter,
I am not implying that the US system is better, I am simply saying that the British system or the EU's system is not neccessarily better then ours, or that ours doesnt need improvement.

I am saying that I personally think that if we let the market work without govt interference, it will fix itself.


Though the UK is a part of Europe (geogarphically, EU-member, etc) and the European countries all have a universal health care system like any other country besides the USA - although that is so: there's no EU-health care system.

The market here works quite well: there's really a big competition among the nearly 300 health isnurances (how many are there in the USA, btw?), and I know quite a few people who change their insurer quite frequently (= any year) .... and others, who stick to one from birth onwards.
0 Replies
 
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Mar, 2008 12:15 pm
mm wrote :

Quote:
I am saying that I personally think that if we let the market work without govt interference, it will fix itself.


i wonder if mm also believes that "if we let the market work without govt interference " , it's not unreasonable to let coditions as those in knoxville continue .

as the report from the EXPEDITION to knoxville (EXPEDITION - was that in africa ?) stated :
Quote:
"Yeah, you know, that's the lousy part of this job. I mean, it's nice to be able to know that you've helped a bunch of people. But the reality is that we can't do everybody. At the moment, we're just seeing the thousands and thousands of people that we can, and the rest of them, unfortunately, have got to do the best they can without us," Brock said.


i fully realize that healthcare in ontario is not perfect , but i can state that thousands of people do NOT have to line up for a charity clinic !
people may have longer wait-times than they wish , but THEY WILL BE SEEN !
some patients may even be sent across the border to the U.S. for medical services - but certainly not thousands , nor even hundreds ! - , but as they are insured , they needn't worry of being presented with a bill after their treatment in the U.S.

surely the U.S. can provide adequate healthcare for some of its most vulnerable citizens without any damage to the economy - or am i simply wrong ?
hbg
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Mar, 2008 12:57 pm
MM, say a young person chooses to go without insurance and contracts a deadly disease, would you hope the govt. stands by and lets him or her die? It would be better to have a system under which health insurance, or the equivalent, is imposed.
0 Replies
 
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Mar, 2008 01:01 pm
advocate wrote :

Quote:
It would be better to have a system under which health insurance, or the equivalent, is imposed.


advocate : i trust you have cleared that with mm ?
hbg
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Mar, 2008 01:13 pm
hamburger wrote:
advocate wrote :

Quote:
It would be better to have a system under which health insurance, or the equivalent, is imposed.


advocate : i trust you have cleared that with mm ?
hbg



I am seeking his approval.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Mar, 2008 02:47 pm
You'll be waiting a very long time.
0 Replies
 
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Mar, 2008 03:12 pm
c.i. wrote :

Quote:
You'll be waiting a very long time.


... and i think we may be able to foretell what the response will be .
hbg
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Mar, 2008 04:11 pm
hamburger wrote:
c.i. wrote :

Quote:
You'll be waiting a very long time.


... and i think we may be able to foretell what the response will be .
hbg


100% true.
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Mar, 2008 04:40 pm
hamburger wrote:
c.i. wrote :

Quote:
You'll be waiting a very long time.


... and i think we may be able to foretell what the response will be .
hbg


Your right, you can.

NOBODY should be forced to buy health insurance.
If someone decides to accrue property and "things" instead of getting health insurance, then they forfeit all of those "things" to pay for any serious illness.
If that isnt enough, thats just to bad.

If someone makes a choice, they must live (or die) by that choice.
0 Replies
 
Diest TKO
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Mar, 2008 04:45 pm
I don't know why we need the middle man personally.

T
K
O
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Mar, 2008 05:13 pm
MM, you don't account for squeamishness of the American public. They won't just sit back and let you die of something curable. Thus, public funds will be expended, the benefits from which you will gratefully accept, to save your ass.

Thus, everyone should be required to have health insurance, just as they are required to have auto insurance.
0 Replies
 
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Mar, 2008 06:34 pm
i am reasonably sure that mm did not see the feature on the medical "expedition" in america .
many of those people would simply not have been able to find an insurance company willing to accept them .
others were poor working people that could not afford insurance ... ...
or found the deductibles a bit of a hurdle .

nobody really needs to be forced to "buy" insurance . in ontario we do not "buy" insurance but pay for it through our taxes .

imo it is really not any different than financing police services , fire services ... ... and many of the other services provided through taxation .
i don't think i need to list every single one of those services - but landing on the moon comes to mind as an extreme example .
we do not truly pay for them directly but through general and special taxation - for the benefit of all the people .

as i have mentioned before , fire services were at one time only provided to those who had paid for it .

i doubt that mm would suggest that in the 21st century we should only be provided with police and fire services etc. if we had specifically paid for them - and not through general taxation .

since we are now living in the 21st century , i had assumed that we were living in a somewhat enlightened society .
i had also asumed that it would not be too difficult to understand that universal health services would benefit all the people .
i admit that my assumptions are wrong on both points .
hbg Crying or Very sad
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Mar, 2008 07:12 pm
hamburger wrote:

as i have mentioned before , fire services were at one time only provided to those who had paid for it .

i doubt that mm would suggest that in the 21st century we should only be provided with police and fire services etc. if we had specifically paid for them - and not through general taxation .


You are comparing apples and oranges.

If someone decides not to have health insurance, and gets sick, that is their choice.
It doesnt affect anyone else, it doesnt threaten their neighbors, it doesnt risk other people.

With fire fighting, it does affect everyone.
An uncontrolled structure fire can spread to other structures, and if those structures are homes, everyone suffers.
0 Replies
 
 

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