IT'S TIME FOR UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE

High Seas wrote:

P.S. to Walter

Walter - having finally located your street address I've mailed the book promised to you for last Christmas; sorry about delay but you know I've been working in the Far East and internet connections there aren't the most reliable.

Thank you for your patience in waiting for it - and sorry also I'm posting this note on this thread as book is related to energy supplies but there's an FAA advisory and I've a lot to do before takeoff. An explanatory cover note is included with the book. A good weekend to all here

Thanks :wink:

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How do you explain that smokers are the most profitable group of people to the healthcare industry?

And what is wrong with charging obese people more because they are obese? Black, white, mexican, who cares....BMI and BF% over a certain amount, FAT TAX!

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USAFHokie80 wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Sure you can. You pass laws saying that they are not allowed to refuse medicare or medicaid patients, or whatever we end up calling universal health insurance.

If they don't like it, they lose their licensing and can go do something else for a living.

Not a complicated concept

Cycloptichorn

It's not nearly as simple as you seem to think. You really should spend a little more time to learn about how health care *actually* works instead of relying on the mass-misunderstanding the general population holds.

For instance, my boyfriend has just fired another patient for lying to him. For reference, he is a double-board certified primary care physician, boarded in internal medicine and pediatrics. Anyway, a patient came in a few days ago for something (I don't remember) and Mark asked him a bunch of questions, including if he drank. The guy insisted he did not. I suppose he didn't realize Mark could smell the alcohol, so he added an etoh to the blood panel they were running. Sure enough, he was 2x legal limit. Fired. You will NEVER for a physician to treat people such as this. By doing so, you are forcing the physician to open himself up to legal issues. If Mark had taken the patient's word and ended up prescribing something that interacted with alcohol, Mark would be sued for mal practice.

Like it or not, Cyclo, medcine and health care are FAR more complicated and "gray" than you either understand or are willing to admit.

Mark did the right thing. As a matter of fact in the rules and regulations of most major medical health insurance plans, the conditions under which a physician can refuse treatment are spelled out.

Obviously if a patient attempts to molest the doctor, another patient or a secretary, that individual can easily be refused future appointments with that specific physician.

And ,now that doctors are graded by insurance plans and awarded $$ perks for excellent patient care, it's in the best interest of the physician to weed out noncomplaint/ bothersome patients.

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maporsche wrote:

How do you explain that smokers are the most profitable group of people to the healthcare industry?

Have you ever noticed how many physicians and nurses stand outside major urban hospitals and smoke?

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Miller wrote:

it's in the best interest of the physician to weed out noncomplaint/ bothersome patients.

And sick one's too I'd imagine.

"Oh you just have a tummy-ache, I'll fix you right up, and please fill out this survey on my performance, by the way can I Rx some Vicoden for the pain?"

vs.

"I'm sorry, I can't figure out what is wrong with you, I have never seen anything like this before....wait a minute, did you just grab my ass? Get out of here, never come back you pervert"

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Miller wrote:

maporsche wrote:
How do you explain that smokers are the most profitable group of people to the healthcare industry?

Have you ever noticed how many physicians and nurses stand outside major urban hospitals and smoke?

Um...no.

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A PERMIT TO BUY SMOKES (or alcohol)
----------------------------------------------
when we came to canada some 50+ years ago , a PERMIT (cost $2) was required to buy alcohol (not for beer) .
since i had bought a permit , many friends would borrow it when buying a bottle at the LIQUOR LICENSING BOARD OF ONTARIO ( :wink: ) .
you couldn't select the bottle yourself but had to fill in a REQUISITION , pay the cashier and take the requ to a clerk who wold disappear in to the back-storage room to get your REFRESHMENT !

now booze from the seven corners of the world is freely displayed in the stores - and you can pick the bottle yourself - if you have a large order , they'll even carry it to your car Laughing

where have the good old days gone ? :wink:

just remembered : there also was an INDIAN LIST in every liquor store and aboriginals/natives where not given a permit - lots of business for the bootleggers - they needed to make a living too .
hbg

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Quote:

Have you ever noticed how many physicians and nurses stand outside major urban hospitals and smoke?

yep ! even though it may be 20 BELOW C , there are usually a few hardy nurses having a drag outside when i drive by our general hospital - and they have to be at least 20 feet away from the entrance - when the wind comes off lake ontario , i'm sure it feels even colder .
hbg

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There's one major Boston area hospital, where the staff have to go about 1 block away from the main doors to get a smoke. They almost have to smoke out on a highway that runs by the hospital.

I can remember when patients with staff would smoke outside a major Cancer hospital and no one thought there was anything wrong with it.
That's all changed now...

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cicerone imposter wrote:

What's next? A tax to buy beer?

Liberals know what's best for you.

from http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/main.jhtml?xml=/earth/2008/02/17/eawater117.xml

Quote:

Bottled water 'is immoral'
Last Updated: 12:01am GMT 17/02/2008

Drinking bottled water should be made as unfashionable as smoking, according to a government adviser.

"We have to make people think that it's unfashionable just as we have with smoking. We need a similar campaign to convince people that this is wrong," said Tim Lang, the Government's naural resources commissioner.

Phil Woolas, the environment minister, added that the amount of money spent on mineral water "borders on being morally unacceptable"................

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I suppose that your responses and links are really very valuable, real life.

But could you kindly explain how they are related to (mandatory) universal healthcare?

I mean, I remember those days when you could get certain mineral waters from certain sources prescribed and thus for free.
That changed .... about 35 years ago, I think.

You still get normal mineral water for free when staying in a hospital (or nursing home, but that is paid by the compulsory long term care insurance).

However, I don't think this is really an argument pro or contra universal healthcare.

You certainly can prove me wrong.

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My point is fairly simple.

If you give the government control of your health care, they're going to want to tell you what you should eat and drink as well as what you shouldn't (fast food, junk food) , how you should spend your spare time (exercising) and where you should (the park) and shouldn't (the pub) go.

That's the liberal mindset, control. Minute, mind numbing control.

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Well, as said here many times: universal healthcare doesn't have to be under government control more than e.g .... take whatever you want which is regulated by laws.

We got nearly 300 different companies offering insurencies under our system of universal healthcare. They are controlled by the government - like any other company offering insurences.

I mean, you're not going to tell me that there's any health care (or other insurence) in any country which is totally out of government control, are you?

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real life wrote:

That's the liberal mindset, control. Minute, mind numbing control.

Universal healthcare as we know it today was 'invented' in the 1880's by Bismarck. An ultra-conservative.

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walter wrote :

Quote:

Universal healthcare as we know it today was 'invented' in the 1880's by Bismarck. An ultra-conservative.

bismarck must have been an "ultra-conservative liberal" - they are the worst kind !
hbg

(sorry , but i needed something light-hearted on this gloomy afternoon :wink: )

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Walter Hinteler wrote:

real life wrote:

That's the liberal mindset, control. Minute, mind numbing control.

Universal healthcare as we know it today was 'invented' in the 1880's by Bismarck. An ultra-conservative.

That is hardly a fair argument, Walter. I doubt his brand of conservatism was that much like the contemporary American definition of conservatism, and you should know that. Also another question, did he invent universal health care, or was it more akin to universal insurance? I don't know the answer to that, but a quick search of the man's policies causes the question.

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okie wrote:

That is hardly a fair argument, Walter. I doubt his brand of conservatism was that much like the contemporary American definition of conservatism, and you should know that.

The details were different but Bismark represented the same resistence to rapid change, etc. that we see here today. It turned out that he was a good deal wiser than what followed him in German political leadership.

Bismark's initiatives in social welfare were mostly designed to quiet the population so that he could concentrate his efforts on other issues he considered more important. Moreover he had to do something to reduce the exodus of all those Germans of the previous generation to America. (He was just in time to keep Walter's forebears from leaving too.) :wink:

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okie wrote:

That is hardly a fair argument, Walter. I doubt his brand of conservatism was that much like the contemporary American definition of conservatism, and you should know that. Also another question, did he invent universal health care, or was it more akin to universal insurance? I don't know the answer to that, but a quick search of the man's policies causes the question.

Well, George already answered to this, in parts.

Bismarck certainly might be different than what you Americans think about conservatism.

But generally, he's considered here to be the [bad] picture of strongest ultra-conservatism. (No doubt, others will have a different opinion - I only focued a bit on the period when I studied political sciences and history at university.)

Actually, it was the universal healthcare he "invented" - health insurances were already present in those days. (For instance, one of the the forerunners of mine, a pure online insurance company, was founded in early 19th century [some even date it back to 17th century, but that was more a guild then in my opinion] in my native town as a small local company,)

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Now Hillary is rewriting the Constitution to suit herself and her goals...

http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/dc/2008/02/hillary-health-care-is-constit.html

Quote:

Hillary Clinton just raised her campaign pledge for universal health care to the level of a new Constitutional right, telling a crowd in De Pere, Wis., today that the way things stand in America it's OK to discriminate against the sick.

Can anyone show me where in the Bill of Rights OR the Constitution that healthcare is specifically mentioned?

I cant find it anywhere in my copy of the Constitution.

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Get a new copy.

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IT'S TIME FOR UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE

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