IT'S TIME FOR UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE

But, how will this PLAN function without participation of American Physicians?

Will the poor folks have to go to Walgreens for their healthcare?

Don't forget, that there are many, many MDs who will not take Medicare or Medicaid insurance and in fact, some will take nothing but cash.

Have you ever wondered how an American physician can see 50-100 patients in a single day??

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Miller wrote:

But, how will this PLAN function without participation of American Physicians?

Will the poor folks have to go to Walgreens for their healthcare?

Don't forget, that there are many, many MDs who will not take Medicare or Medicaid insurance and in fact, some will take nothing but cash.

Have you ever wondered how an American physician can see 50-100 patients in a single day??

They won't be allowed to do this any longer.

And you will say 'well, they will stop being doctors.' Bull.

Cycloptichorn

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If here (in Germany) a physican only takes patients with privat insurances (or cash) - that's either a bit fishy (= because he didn't get the admission/license by the compulsory health insurances) or she/he is already retired or (that's the most rare situation) she/he is a "high society doctor" (e.g. some plastic surgeons only work for private insurances/cash).

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Miller wrote:

Have you ever wondered how an American physician can see 50-100 patients in a single day??

A German family doctor sees about 1,100 , a specialist 1,200 patients ... per quarter. (A quarter is the accounting unit with/for the insurance companies = patients need to show their health insurance ID-card once a quarter.)

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Advocate wrote:

I imagine that there would be no application in a U plan.

What Universial plan would that be? There is no plan being advanced on the table right now that would eliminate the need for applications. All of them still involve the use of private insurers.

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cicerone imposter wrote:

The advantage of a U plan is simply that there will not be any exclusions for preexisting medical problems. The doctor decides: not some clerk sitting in an office of the insurance company.

You mean like Medicare? Oh wait... There are exclusions for pre-existing exclusions there too...

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Walter Hinteler wrote:

Miller wrote:
Have you ever wondered how an American physician can see 50-100 patients in a single day??

A German family doctor sees about 1,100 , a specialist 1,200 patients ... per quarter. (A quarter is the accounting unit with/for the insurance companies = patients need to show their health insurance ID-card once a quarter.)

Does that translate to 20 patients/day or about 4 patients/hour?

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fishin wrote:

cicerone imposter wrote:
The advantage of a U plan is simply that there will not be any exclusions for preexisting medical problems. The doctor decides: not some clerk sitting in an office of the insurance company.

You mean like Medicare? Oh wait... There are exclusions for pre-existing exclusions there too...

What's not covered by Part A and Part B of Medicare"

Physical exams:
Medicare will cover a one-time physical exam within the first 6 months of enrolling in Part B. Additional physicals have to be covered by cash or a medigap plan.

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fishin wrote:

Advocate wrote:
I imagine that there would be no application in a U plan.

What Universial plan would that be? There is no plan being advanced on the table right now that would eliminate the need for applications. All of them still involve the use of private insurers.

Basic Medicare doesn't involve a private plan. Moreover, a senior citizen can elect to be covered by only Medicare A and not B.
Most medigap plans require the individual to be covered by both Medicare A and B.

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Cycloptichorn wrote:

Miller wrote:
But, how will this PLAN function without participation of American Physicians?

Will the poor folks have to go to Walgreens for their healthcare?

Don't forget, that there are many, many MDs who will not take Medicare or Medicaid insurance and in fact, some will take nothing but cash.

Have you ever wondered how an American physician can see 50-100 patients in a single day??

They won't be allowed to do this any longer.

And who's to stop them? Physicians have the right to reject certain individuals as patients. As a matter of fact, some MDs now refuse treatment to many patients when past history with these individuals indicate they don't wish to follow a physicians order relative to health or are other wise troublesome in the physicians office/clinic or even the ER.

Additionally, some health insurance plans also have the legal right to terminate an individual's policy, when that individual has been found to "cause trouble" for the physician.

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Miller wrote:

Does that translate to 20 patients/day or about 4 patients/hour?

Statistically spoken: yes. But since some patients might have to see their doctor more than just once, the actual number per day is (of course) higher.

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Miller wrote:

fishin wrote:
Advocate wrote:
I imagine that there would be no application in a U plan.

What Universial plan would that be? There is no plan being advanced on the table right now that would eliminate the need for applications. All of them still involve the use of private insurers.

Basic Medicare doesn't involve a private plan. Moreover, a senior citizen can elect to be covered by only Medicare A and not B.
Most medigap plans require the individual to be covered by both Medicare A and B.

But no one currently has a plan on the table to expend Medicare to cover everyone.

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Right now, seniors who've paid into SS can obtain Medicare part A free and part B, if they want to pay for it.

Seniors ( 65 +)who never paid into SS, can be covered by Medicare, if they're willing to pay a premium of about $500/month.

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our physician is in his office 8 hours a day . he usually sees a patient every 15 minutes , that's about 30-35 patients a day .
his secretary/wife will sometimes squeeze in another patient in at the end of the day in an emergency .
if both mrs h and i go together - which we usually do - he might deal with both of us in about 20 minutes , which gives him a few extra minutes for a patient needing extra attention .
i don't see how he personally could see 50 , let alone 100 patients in a day - unless they roll by him on a conveyer belt Shocked

hbg

MEDICAL CARE - ASSEMBLY LINE STYLE

http://youtube.com/watch?v=mU8rm5fL5MQ&feature=related

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1,200 patients per quarter (Walter's number) works out to 100 patients per week (assuming 4 weeks for vacation & continued medical education), or 20/day, or about 3 visits per hour. Probably as much continuous utilization as a Doctor can bear for an extended period. I think the time spent per visit here is probably a bit higher than that.

It would be interesting to get some comparative data on physician's salaries in different countries. In the cases of the UK and Canada in particular, I believe they are much lower than here. I don't know about Germany or France.

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MDsalaries

I don't know how verifiable any of this is (can't follow the links from here).

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The primary care physicians in the US, on average probably make about $150,000/year based on what I know.

The specialists make any where from about $200,000 to $500,000/year depending on the speciality.

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georgeob1 wrote:

It would be interesting to get some comparative data on physician's salaries in different countries. In the cases of the UK and Canada in particular, I believe they are much lower than here. I don't know about Germany or France.

These data are from 2005, before tax, but after all operating costs, physicans practising as resident doctors, per year:

Internists 97.000 Euro
Orthopedic surgeons 92.200 Euro
Paediatrists 87.200 Euro
Ophthalmologists 85.800 Euro
Gynaecologists 80.200 Euro
ENT doctors 79.800 Euro
Urologists 78.400 Euro
General practitioners 77.900 Euro
Radiologists 75.100 Euro
Nervenärzte 68.800 Eur
Surgeons 63.900 Euro
Dermatologists 63.700 Euro

That's the average - some will a lot more, others work only part-time, ... ...

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What is a "resident doctor"? Here I believe the term generally refers to a licensed physician working on a salaried basis in a hospital in pursuit of qualification in a specialty.

Taking internists as an example, I believe the compensation here (after operating expenses including malpractice insurance) is a good deal higher than the $140 thousand (or so) equivalent.

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Well, we've got docors in hospitals - they work there (and may be allowed, especially the heads and deputy heads of the departments) to have some consultation hours, and the doctors practising independently, register with one of the 17 Associations of Statutory Health Insurance Physicians. The latters are those you would usually contact here, the former you'll normally only meet as an indoor patient of a hospital.

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