You're right about communication, dadpad. I really didn't know what questions to ask. Ossobuco's comments have been enormously helpful.
Osso, That's a good idea to talk to a civil engineer. I know several, as I used to work for an engineering firm.
Swimpy you seemed concerned about a drainage issue. Ask him about that. Ask him for copies of recent plans for other clients. compare whats on paper with what actually ended up on the ground
Drainage (mostly) is a pretty simple issue.
Good garden design is mostly about making rooms. Just like in your house.
I agree that the plan looks a little flat and ordinary. It may actually be more practical than you think on a long term basis. Once the earth works are done and the patio laid the rest is really just window dressing that you can change anytime. (with the exception perhaps of big trees)
Keep in mind that landscapers with practical experience tend to be men who are good with machines not arty farty designers. They may find it difficult to explain the art concept in terms that you might be able to understand. Often really good landscape companies are partnerships between someone with a design flair and someone with a practical flair.
Easy girl. I think he means well.
I'll relax a bit and be back.
As to your whole post, I'll address it.
This was just a first reaction. Never mind the male female ****. That was early years here.
I'll relax a bit and be back. In the meantime, Swimp, I can't see your grades from here. Talk to your civil engineering cohorts.
I have been supposing the answer is simple - as surface drainage takes care of a lot of water - but, y'know, if you drain to the house and don't take care of it with swales - and drains in certain instances, when water is captured, it is an automatic flunk in our board exams - I know this since I was a board reviewer at one point. You can do something like drain away from the house to a "dry river bed" - the surface overlaying a trench and a "saran" wrap of gravel around a perforated pvc pipe that takes water out of the back yard to the street via a pipe and then curb core.
I think I've been bordering too nice about the potential abilities of this fellow, leaving him all this room for being a natural genius, since that can happen, though rare enough. I'm more interested in how Swimpy's garden and the land that makes up her yard functions, and some beauty past that.
I don't care who she hires, but I'd like the person to be competent. I'd prefer they also give her a lovely garden. This seems unlikely with this guy. Never mind his design, it has taken him forever to come up with this. Our contracts had timeline, even on the proposed concept - or concepts, as we usually did several on trace and had an ititial meeting over them.
If one is going to put many thousands, say Swimpy's twenty, into a re do of one's yard, one doesn't want to be jerked around, however low or large someone else thinks all that money is.
Partly this argument is cultural, but I see lots of foo foo.
My gripe with myself is that I didn't explain all this up front. I assume you can see why, it's my baggage and hard to apply elsewhere. But, I don't want Swimpy spending what is to us a lot of money on such a non compis guy. Verbena... WHAT verbena? There are many.
Still lame, sorry for him as you may be, dadpad, he is non pro, and that is a lot of money to throw at such a sketch after these weeks.
I'll address the large dadpad post tomorrow, unless I go to the movies...
kidding, will answer at some point.
But on the fine points, one intercepts water before the house, one way or another. Or one is stupid.
I see here in New Mexico that this doesn't matter to people, it'll drain, as on this side of town we live on sand, don't get me started. My tract house has the concrete aiming at the back door, from, count'em, three directions. In CA this wouldn't have gotten occupancy. (I saw this before I bought, since my eye is not bad at this - I assumed I could afford to fix it). My troubled dog is stepping out, this week, into three inches of water. But wait, several blocks east, this gets serious, with clay and then, more east, more clay, so that soil retaining water near a building, even at the surface, is important.
Below, with basements, water pressure isn't just a concept. Mostly we don't have basements here, but even the site developers have no clue, as far as I've seen so far.
A song about slip sliding away?
Someone could make money by explaining grading and drainage to homeowners. I'd go for that, except I've no start up money and besides, I'm thinking of elder eyeglass ropes of crystals or bead holders, not kidding and by the way, I copywright (aka copyright) that idea, not kidding, unless those ugly ropes are already all over the internet.
Twenty thousand dollars is a serious investment. Not something to be nice and affirming about while giving people chances.
I admit that, given the little I know, he still might be great. Show me.
Water draining to walls is not just an exam flunk situation, as a real life one.
I didn't mean to be confusing about that.
The civil engineers I've known and I respect each other, generally worked together on large projects over months, and are still in touch, except for one, a beginner but nastybody who was very defensive. In that one case, and no others, until years later, I regraded a whole pretty much accepted engineering plan for a large senior centr to save the oak trees and a stop a bunch of cut - considerations past the major engineering firm's take on it. we're talking big piles of soil.
It came toe to toe, my boss and his, biiiiiiiig firm. It was regraded my way, both saving the trees and scads of money. My time on that was not charged, as I remember, past the normal, as it was outta sight and we wanted to keep our business client.
I can be wrong, I started late in site design.
But I don't want to hear about the poor guy.. he's selling his services.
Decades later with my own and business partner's firm, the oak tree saving thing came up again, and was resolved our way - so easy really, don't cut six feet down from the roots. We blinked at the accepted plan and rerouted the driveway. We're not so heroic as the engineers were, at best, placid. I'm not anti civil engineer, those examples are exceptions in my experience. I have firms I could ballyhoo.
Enough. Don't give me this guy's doing a job stuff.
ossos very very right about the drainage issue it should have been on the plan. I saw it from the photos so he should have seen it. Spoon drain at the base of the retaining wall or underground slotted pipe in a sheath of gravel. and probably along the wall of the house as well. Actually when I look at the plan there's a black line running at the base of the retaining wall it doesnt appear to go anywhere so ...????.
I still say talk to him about it. Mayhap he's got it in hand or there's something we cant see.
I really cant see what's wrong with receiving a plan then adjusting.
Its all about communication.
Quote: I can be wrong ...But I don't want to hear about the poor guy
This... from someone who confused a redwood and a eucalypt?
Just talk to him swimpy get a feel for how he reacts to our questions about drainage.
Who is confused about a redwood and a euc? Surely not me.
Maybe we are having a muscles thing about some communication gap.
Or was it the shrub we argued about weeks back?
I don't know what this is about. I like and learn from your posts, dadpad.
what are all these flames from you?
You're fine osso, you did at one stage confuse the two but but it was just one of those momentary lapses we al have that make you want to say DOH! What was I thinking. My point is you're slamming the guy for making an error without him having the chance to respond.
Swimpy here's some very basic stuff about drainage and retaining walls
drainage problem
retaining walls
Will he cut and fill or just fill? (fill means raise the natural soil level, cut means reduce the natural soil level.) Ask what kind of fill?. How will the retaining wall be stabilised to stop it falling out/over.
What material is the retaining wall?
Perhaps, dadpad, I am some posting figment of your imagination who, while living within eucs and redwoods, not seeing them, dumps on poor workers?
I suspect your own hostilities are taking charge, dadpad. Too bad for both of us, as I've been pleased to listen to you, previously.
He's been very nonspecific about grading. As you can see by my posting here at 2 AM on a Sunday, I am concerned. I will call him Monday and discuss it with him. I'm also going to call an engineer and another landscaper for consultations. Osso is right. This is a lot of money for me. I have existing drainage problems and I fear this plan will only make matters worse.
Ne'er mind our spat, as I see you can see through, Swimpy. Glad to read what you just said.
Dadpad, I do know I'm fine. I'm usually pretty sharp on grading when I can see a site and if not at that minute, when I do the calcs; this is not true here, we are on the internet.
Momentary lapse? I'd never heard of your shrub, was glad to be clued in.
What is this with the dumpo rama?
