Swimpy's Landscaping Thread

Besides looking for japanese garden stuff in those lists, I'll try to look for a link that is useful on Jens Jensen... because your designer's choice of using grasses makes sense with that. Lot of Iowa grass natives mentioned in that iowa native link.

Interesting. He never explained his vision, if he has one.

I'm not clear he has one, for that money, not to be curt, I sort of doubt it, but I don't know. He may be really interested in landscape design. He might not be so far off, may be doing ok instinctively, perhaps from having antennae while trying to make a living, and he presumably has local area knowledge re soils, et al. Or he may be quite educated and just trying to get along.

Plants are dealable, my main interest is that your yard drains away from the house. (Mine doesn't, I saw it before I bought, didn't know I'd not have the money to fix it. Gnashing.)

It's tricky. When I was in LA, there were major designers and many poseurs and myriad wannabes. One woman made a primo career out of her own yard. Some skipped all that entirely to make art yards. I'm fine with all that.

I don't know that your guy is not good. The japanese sensibility can make sense with the prairie context - he might be right on.

I don't know either. I think he looks at the planning costs as a loss leader. he's in very competitive market here. It's not that big a town, but we have several landscape firms. I'm nervous about him, but I'm going to see what he ultimately comes up with. So far, he's only spent a minimal amount of time on this project. I guestimate, based on his preliminary numbers, that this project could cost $20K. I want to see a plan with elevations and exact measurements before I sign on the dotted line.

This is probably illegible, but I thought I
d post it to give you an idea. It's still a draft


I'll be back later to add some details.

The street is on the left. The dark rectagle is the patio in the back yard. The two trees in the front are now flowering crab. replacing the lalacs in the backyard will be nine bark and he's added hydrangeas and verbenas instead of so many azaleas.

The crabapple variety he's showing is called Tina. I looked it up and found that it is a low growing spreading tree. I don't know how that's going to look. http://hgic.clemson.edu/factsheets/HGIC1007.htm

Can it be pruned into a normal tree shape?

That looks like a fairly normal shape to me. A sparkler crab will grow lower to the ground and more in a horizontal fashion.

I like that crab shape. i don't think you should plant something that you feel you'll need to prune to change its shape. The designer prolly scouted local nurseries and found that crab available.

And by the way, Swimpy, I am glad to see you undertake this particular project. I was tired of seeing you wasting your life away, doing nothing but drinking beer and yelling at speeding cars as the whizzed by your house.

I think this project will have a soothing effect on you and turn you into a more relaxed person.

Ummmpf.


Well, the Malus Sargentii 'Tina' is on the link I showed earlier - it seems way too small to me, 5 feet tall, 6' wide, at maturity???? If that is true, is that what you want?

http://www.jfschmidt.com/articles/crabs_to_go/


I have to monitor my responses. My partner and I charged leagues more money for a design, but we split the money and different bits of the work, plus hours of saying, what about this?; we each had long experience and multiple licenses, extensive portfolios, doing large and small projects, not to be puffy, but just true.

For the front and back yards with demo plan, grading plan, construction plan with elevations and details for structures - and precise planting plans with latin and common names and plant sizes and notes, perhaps with irrigation and lighting plan, for all of those, specifications on how to install with a maintenance section --- all that after a concept plan was chosen, further plans depending on what was needed, and sometimes only the concept plan was necessary - so the contract was written that way. The whole set could run people some money. For a simple job, 2500 to 4500. , not so simple, more. Given plans, they could get it bid to specs from different landscape companies. A simple concept alone, given the mapping involved and the grading, you have to work out to even begin to draw, would run between 800. and 1200. unless there were pools, ponds, decks, outdoor kitchen, etc., then the concept itself could be higher.

So, I see this guy has spare plant language, doesn't designate full names, much less sizes, so I dunno. I seriously doubt you're going to see elevations, but his fee for the plan is tiny. It looks like he is used to not drawing much.
Where are the new walls?

I will try to not butt in further, just bring up any plant matter I notice.

Now you're making me nervous.

That's why I didn't say the same types of things. I guess I should. I also felt he doesn't usually draw out his plans, which doesn't necessarily mean he's a bad landscaper. But, he also didn't add a lot of detail. He may just think you're not interested.

You need to see what sized plants you are getting for what money. Substitution of smaller plants is easy.

I don't see any clue he is going to make the soil at the back of the house drain all the water coming toward the house away.

Slow and lame, sorry, that's my point of view.

Maybe he's good, a natural at the gardening. You did like the places he done before, as I remember. Did you look his business up with the contracting board or better business bureau? Do it now, if you haven't.

I've had reservations since the beginning. I'm going to ask him more specific questions. It may be that I just pay him for the plan and go my merry way. So far I haven't given him any money.

BTW, Osso and Lilk, thank you for your honesty. I had been assuming that the qualms you had, osso, had more to do with the difference between the west coast and the midwest. I've showed this plan to several other midwesterners and they were equally underwhelmed. ****.

Well, it's hard from afar to speak up and some people who know about landscaping aren't particularly educated in landscape design except by experience. My old boss, for example, was raised from early childhood in and around a big nursery and his degree was not in horticulture or somesuch, but in urban planning. He took the national boards after interning in a local design office, and aced them, had a thoroughgoing grasp of all kinds of landscape matters, was, is still, a strong designer. If he had worked his way through school doing some landscaping, licensed or not, he would have been good.

Another of my mentors, also a landarch, (I think, I'm starting to forget this stuff, but he was a partner in a major firm) is primarily an artist, and his main take on plants is ... will they live if planted right there? Some garden designers aren't either landarchs or landscape contractors but artists... Robert Irwin, a well known artist who did the Getty Garden, is doing another biggie, I forget right now where. I'm not his biggest fan, but I mention him to show the breadth of background you can run across.
Some garden designers who are very good work with others as associates for structural design and licensing matters.

I'm strongly in favor of licensing for landscape contractors and landscape architects but I represent their view on it. Do you have any landscape architects in your city? You might call them and ask if they have any recommendations for a competent local landscape contractor/designer. They may or may not want to look at the job themselves, which couldn't hurt. While it is obviously more money for a plan from them, it could conceivably come out the same total in the end.

Some landscape contractors are fabulous designers, I know two personally that are that are fantastic. And some are fools. But then so are some landarchs. I have no idea how Iowa deals with professional licensing matters. In California, the licensing situation gives the owner a lot of recourse for complaint, and that seems to be true here in New Mexico too, but I'm not sure about there being a contractors' board.

There's no landscape architect in my town. I think all of the landscapers are self taught. This guy worked for a local nursery that also did a lot of landscaping. I'm not looking for fancy. Fancy wouldn't fit my neighborhood. It's a very blue collar neighborhood. I would just like a nice place to hang out. My concern, and yours, is that the grading be done right. I don't want to start getting water in my basement after all this work. He's not showing me any elevations. He just says he'll regrade here and there. That's not good enough. I want to see a grading plan.

I think I will go to someone else. It's probably too late to get this done this year, though. That's OK. I'd rather take my time and get it right.

Are there landscape contractors in your surrounding area?

A seemingly odd thought but perhaps useful, is that you might have a civil engineer look at the your place, for a consult fee. I had one look at my fix for my own place a decade ago, didn't cost that much, very worth it.

I can't remember off hand or remember telling by the photos, but you might benefit from a simple flashwall (4" wide concrete, sort of like a tall curb) at the back of the house (I seem to remember you didn't seem to need that) ... or maybe just some attention to grading to the swale.

These local guys, I'm beginning to guess, don't know a thing about a transit and grades. This can be simplified and much is available at home depot, et al, now, heck, you can rent it, but they need to have a clue about drainage in the first place. An hour of a civil engineer's time could be smart, just to tell you what is serious or not and the approach to take, and, who knows, they may recommend some folks..


Have you googled your state's landscape contractors?

I say give the guy a chance. Communication is a two way street. he may not have spent days and days on a plan because he knows how much it will cost.

He may have all the stuff in his head and just cant get it on paper.

Talk to him and tell him of your reservations. Mention the drainage issue and that you need to see things on paper.

An hour of a civil engineer's time could be beneficial, whether or not she stays with this fellow. Swimpy has a need to know how it should work.

(I meant to say that when I had paid for an hour's consult, it was with a structural, but never mind.)





I guess I should add I'm plenty used to and probably more comfortable in so called blue collar zone, live there now myself.