Minimum Wage

okie wrote:

This is really digging up the past, but remember poor Elian Gonzales. The poor kid whose mother died getting him here, to escape repression to a better life here, but Janet Reno felt so strongly that he should go back to Castro's Cuba that she took him at the point of a gun. It was so important to send him back to Castro and a dad that seldom saw him before, but millions of illegals and drug dealers coming across the border werre not a problem. Does that not say it all about the liberal lunatic fringe in this country?

This is not how I remember the story. The way I remember the story, the point was that with Elian's mother dead, the next person in line to assume the responsibility of parenthood was Elian's father, who lives in Cuba. It wasn't Elian's aunts and uncles in Florida. Janet Reno, and I assume Bill Clinton, thought it important that the law be upheld even if it's domestically unpopular, even if the beneficiary is a resident of Castro's Cuba, and even if Elian would have had a more prosperous life in the USA. That's a respectable position.

I don't know, to be honest, what the Elian Gonzalez case is doing in this thread. This wasn't about enforcing immigration law, it was about custody law.

Thomas wrote:

okie wrote:

This is really digging up the past, but remember poor Elian Gonzales. The poor kid whose mother died getting him here, to escape repression to a better life here, but Janet Reno felt so strongly that he should go back to Castro's Cuba that she took him at the point of a gun. It was so important to send him back to Castro and a dad that seldom saw him before, but millions of illegals and drug dealers coming across the border werre not a problem. Does that not say it all about the liberal lunatic fringe in this country?

This is not how I remember the story. The way I remember the story, the point was that with Elian's mother dead, the next person in line to assume the responsibility of parenthood was Elian's father, who lives in Cuba. It wasn't Elian's aunts and uncles in Florida. Janet Reno, and I assume Bill Clinton, thought it important that the law be upheld even if it's domestically unpopular, even if the beneficiary is a resident of Castro's Cuba, and even if Elian would have had a more prosperous life in the USA. That's a respectable position.

I don't know, to be honest, what the Elian Gonzalez case is doing in this thread. This wasn't about enforcing immigration law, it was about custody law.

It is not lost on many of us that the libs were very very interested in upholding the letter of the law in regard to Elian, but cannot care less about upholding immigration law. Besides, Elian's mother had custody when she died, so it seems to me a judge could simply rule an exception and grant custody to the uncle. Anybody heard from Elian lately?

Oh well, back to the subject.

Michael Savage made a comment years ago. Elian Gonzalaze the only illegal alien the liberals haven't liked.

Democrats set to seek higher minimum wage

The Courier-Journal

Democrats who control the Indiana House are poised to push legislation that would boost the state's minimum wage for the first time in a decade.

At least three House Democrats have filed bills that would increase the current minimum wage of $5.15 an hour by more than $2.

And Rep. Duane Cheney, the Portage Democrat who is chairman of the Labor and Employment Committee, said he plans a hearing on at least one of the bills soon.

"Work should have value," he said. "You can't go to the movies for $5, let alone try to supplement an income or certainly raise a family."

Gov. Mitch Daniels, a Republican, has said he's open to what he termed a reasonable increase, a "modernization" of the current rate.

But the GOP majority in the Senate -- where minority Democrats also have filed at least three bills -- might not be so receptive.

Pensions and Labor Committee Chairman Dennis Kruse, R-Auburn, said he doesn't plan to have hearings on any of the Senate bills.

He said fewer than 2 percent of Hoosiers earn the minimum wage, and many are teenagers.

"I think it's unnecessary to even have" a minimum wage, Kruse said. "Our society doesn't need it."

However, he said that if the House passes a minimum-wage bill, he may reconsider.

The Indiana debate rages as Democrats who control both houses of Congress work on similar legislation at the federal level. Last week the House voted to raise the federal minimum to $7.25 from $5.15 an hour over the next two years.

If that bill passes the Senate and President Bush signs it into law, thousands of workers in Indiana and millions across the nation would get an increase -- but not all of them.

The federal law doesn't cover some smaller companies that aren't engaged in interstate commerce. So Democrats in Indiana say it's still essential that the state pass its own wage bill.

[..] According to the Center for American Progress, a liberal think-tank, about 143,000 workers in Indiana would be affected by an increase to $7.25. [..]

29 states -- including Michigan, Ohio and Illinois -- have approved higher wages, many of them recently. And the Kentucky General Assembly is expected to consider an increase this year.

"It's been a very active issue the last three years," said Jeanne Mejeur, program director at the National Conference of State Legislatures. "There have been bills introduced and considered in 30 or 40 legislatures each of the last three years."

Also, voters in six states have increased the minimum wage through ballot measures. In each of those cases, the minimums will be adjusted annually for inflation.

That kind of adjustment is included in a bill filed in Indiana by Rep. Joe Micon, D-West Lafayette.

"Right now we're into this process where we increase the minimum wage and there's no adjustment for a period of years -- in this case a decade," Micon said. "And then we have to come back and make a major jump."

Cheney, the House committee chairman, said that he supports the concept of Micon's bill but that it might not make it into the final bill.

"I'm in a position of having to deal with what can move through the process," Cheney said last week. "And that may add a little too much weight."

they also believe they are doing Elian a great favor by making him go back to Cuba where they have universal health care and Cubans don't worship at the feet of evil capitalism. Remember, they think Castro is a great guy. Wait until he dies and you won't hear the end of how wonderful he was.

This thread (Ive read up till page 6) perfectly illustrates how A2K is dominated by those who are economically conservative up to libertarian. Its not just A2K - throughout the forums Ive seen, frequent posters, usually relatively well-off folk enjoying their broadband internet, are unrepresentatively often economically on the libertarian side, just like they are usually culturally liberal. Those who are leftwing on economic policies are as underrepresented as those who are culturally conservative.

In particular it seems that those who are liberal on both counts will appear en masse if the topic is cultural (say, Cheney's lesbian daughter) - but not when the subject is a bread and butter issue like this one. For those libertarian-minded, on the other hand, an issue like raising the minimum wage for the first time in a decade by two bucks an hour constitutes a direct challenge of their economic orthodoxy, and will show up accordingly.

I find all this frustrating.

In other words, we all make choices. Nobody ia forced to work at minimum wage jobs. Some people just need to take responsibility for their own life by pursuing an education, learning a skill, and/or job opportunities.

Complaining about low wages and doing nothing to improve oneself just doesn't cut it.

Paying someone who has no skills and works at Burger King or McDonalds more then $6.00 hr makes no sense.

Baldimo wrote:

Paying someone who has no skills and works at Burger King or McDonalds more then $6.00 hr makes no sense.

Those get here $8.80 - but usually don't work more than 60 hours per month.

Walter Hinteler wrote:

Baldimo wrote:

Paying someone who has no skills and works at Burger King or McDonalds more then $6.00 hr makes no sense.

Those get here $8.80 - but usually don't work more than 60 hours per month.

Don't know what the cost of living is in Germany but that is way over paid to flip burgers and cook fries. There is no skill involved when it comes to most jobs that pay no better then min wage.

Baldimo wrote:

Walter Hinteler wrote:

Baldimo wrote:

Paying someone who has no skills and works at Burger King or McDonalds more then $6.00 hr makes no sense.

Those get here $8.80 - but usually don't work more than 60 hours per month.

Don't know what the cost of living is in Germany but that is way over paid to flip burgers and cook fries. There is no skill involved when it comes to most jobs that pay no better then min wage.

The level of skill involved doesn't matter, as the jobs which are unskilled are still neccessary for society.

For example, it doesn't take 'skill' to dig ditches, yet ditches still are required to be done by the society who needs to drain water. Therefore the end product of the work is valuable even if the person who perfoms that work is not highly skilled. In fact, much of the 'unskilled labor' that we rely upon can be said to be of more value to society as a whole than the skilled labor force.

Therefore it is unreasonable to say that 8.80 is too much to flip burgers, because flipping burgers is something that needs to get done, and someone has to do it...

Cycloptichorn