grr you change just to annoy me!
THe ReDHoRN -- Pizza's always good!
I have a difficult time arguing about things, but if you'd like to, then pick something to disagree with and I'd be glad to watch! Mostly, I'd just like to know more about what you think.
YOU DONT LIKE PIZZA LIAR!!!!
YOU LIKE ICECREAM
!!!! YOU DONT CARE WHAT I THINK
!!!!!!! no honestly, pizza or ice cream?
JLNobody wrote:
Quote:Free will? When I look back I see that all was (in a sense) inevitable; but when I look forward I see that all is (in a sense) open to choice. It's a paradox to me.
Open to choices? yes, maybe. But what if the available choices are themselves inevitable and the final decision is nothing but the accumulative effect of what have happened previously?
acepoly, I actually understand what you mean; predestination from square 1.
we logically could decide to make all decisions by tossing a coin in the air, and naming the choices, thus in effect letting the coin decide.
Thereby, our choice to make all decisions that way is 'free will';
but then, we don't actually have control over any decision, thus our future is governed entirely by chance.
So we have willfully decided to let chaos rule, which aligns us with the rest of the universe.
But, at least we are not subject to 'fate'!
are we?
BGW, But look at how our environment influences our free will. If we had no free education, no food or shelter, and no government services, how will our life be directed? Is waking up in the morning from a comfortable bed, having a cup of coffee and/or breakfast, then jumping in our car to go to work - is that really "free will?" Now make that comfortable bed, that cup of coffee and/or breakfast, and your car disappear. What have you got? c.i.
40 oz of malt liquor a harmonica and hobos dancing for you on the street!
a true 'freedom fighter'!
[that, bye the way, is an answer to both C.I., and Red]
Bo wrote:
Quote:thus our future is governed entirely by CHANCE.
Chance is a word used to cover the reality that we are incapable of grasping the sequence of happenings. While something does not take place for no reason, we usually take it to be whimisical or a matter of tossing a coin just because of being unable to figure the very reason out.
truth
C.I., the question of free will and determinism is a metaphysical one, not a practical one, not an issue of freedom in the sense of power and options. The metaphysical question would apply just as much to a very wealthy individual with many options to choose from as to a prisoner in solitary confinement. Are we EVER free to design and realize our futures or are all our acts that lead to our futures, pre-determined metaphysically? I personally think it is a false issue. Whether or not we are metaphysically free we feel and act as if we are. The determinists are just trying to spoil things for us.
By the way, Bo, a true freedom fighter has to admit of those forces molding you to be a freedom fighter. You were no freedom fighter when you just crept out of the womb. You were educated and brought up to be a freedom fighter. But what if you had been born in some partriarch primitive African clan?
Ace;
I totally dissagree about chance; my universe functions on complete and utter chaos thank you!
a silly little preference of mine, but an important one.
and as for the f.f.
if we look at the world around us, much that we see of the unfair distribution of resources, the noxious treatment of various groups simply due to their skin colour, sex, place of origin, etc., is truly revolting!
so what should we be doing about it?
REVOLTING!!!
Point taken, JLNobody. I 've never thought of this determinism stuff when I was working out a plan for my life. But once a while when you feel sick of the hurly-burly of day-to-day life, picking up the thought of determinism slakes the sentimentality inside, serenades away caprice of life and makes for you a world of serenity and peace.
Odd image Ace;
If i were in a space where all aspects were totally determined,
i would be climbing the walls, feeling anything 'BUT'
peaceful, and serene!
NNY, I'm constantly changing to find something that truly represents me. This may be the last change. c.i.
C.I. is actually a shape shifter;
and morphing is his natural way.
Let him 'not' be!
