1
   

Do We Have Free Will?

 
 
Terry
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Jul, 2003 08:21 am
c.i., good point. It is apparent that many people in the world lack free will (or at least the means for exercising it) due to their circumstances of birth and cultural conditioning. Those with mental deficiencies such as obsessive/compulsive disorders, depression, paranoia, and Down syndrome do not have perfectly free will. People who are subjugated (physically or mentally) by governments, religious leaders, spouses, bosses, domineering mothers, or anyone else may be unable to think freely.

Perhaps none of us have truly free will, but I am convinced that we have at least some.

If we had no free will, we would either be automatons or puppets. The inclination of human beings to create original art and question our existence has no survival benefit and seems to reflect free will. In any given situation you will get a variety of responses from different people, so our brains are not merely clockwork mechanisms.

And if our lives are controlled by God or some mysterious consciousness, the question of free will would merely be pushed back onto the puppeteer.
0 Replies
 
alterreality
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Jul, 2003 02:34 pm
I thought A scientist that was on the team working on the area I was talking about would make a reliable source. Also I have no Exchuse really. But it is philosophy. You can think what you want. I am just putting what I think down. Its not like I dont understand the discussion in hand. I am just giving my opinion like every one else. I might change my assumptions I dont really know. This is just an Idea I had and it seemed to lock in with the information I recieved from my RELIABLE source.
0 Replies
 
acepoly
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Jul, 2003 09:13 am
Dux,

I did not say Nietzsche philosophy as a pet but as a pet subject which means a topic that attracts a lot of attention and interest. Very Happy
0 Replies
 
BoGoWo
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Jul, 2003 09:46 am
AlterReality; interesting name that combining the "alter" at which religious ceremonies are practiced pronouncing their "take on reality"; with reality, or that which actually is.
Possibly the ultimate "oxymoron"!

One thing I would strongly advise AR, is to pay careful attention to Terry's comments.
There is no substitute for knowledge, which is born of hard work, and a great means of developing a mind that shows signs of being able to make some intuitive logical leaps, but is very obviously, easily led astray!

Terry; one thing AR said made me think of something - "how can we have an idea of our own that is "Free Will" and does not just follow a response of something"
It is interesting to surmise the degree to which every "free" thought is descended from a physical, mental, social, or environmental pressure, of some sort, and coloured by the infinite personal store of "baggage" that we all bear. Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
acepoly
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Jul, 2003 10:05 am
Alterreality,

From your name reflects your conviction that mankind does have free will to seme extent and you did write this in your last post:

Quote:
Perhaps none of us have truly free will, but I am convinced that we have at least some.


And your reasons and line of logic are as follows:

Quote:
If we had no free will, we would either be automatons or puppets. The inclination of human beings to create original art and question our existence has no survival benefit and seems to reflect free will. In any given situation you will get a variety of responses from different people, so our brains are not merely clockwork mechanisms.


The pharagraph quoted above includes some prima facie evidences showing that mankind does have some leeway in determining his fate. These evidences, however, presuppose some underlying assumptions on which is built the structure of an argument. As you said, we could create those "orginal" art and give various responses to a single question. But you did not make a further step into asking whether the "original" is really original or not and what makes a person answer a question in his own way. A marvelous work of art, if looked at alone as a integral object, might be labeled as original but its originality is doubtful when some elements elicited from it show similarity with other previously existent objects. Here, I better make clear that I am not intending to prove the originality of a work of art is in essence only a combination of what has previously existed. What I want to say is your belief of the originality of those arts is just a out-and-out assumption that, if taken to be true, can provide the foundation for your later conclusion. Nevertheless, what we are not capable of ascertaining is the correctness of that assumption and moreover, we even don't have to do so because assumption is just an assumption of which every argument consists. An argument without assumption is unsound one and readily susceptible to failing.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Jul, 2003 10:39 am
Bo

Altar!
0 Replies
 
BoGoWo
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Jul, 2003 10:50 am
Frank; do you mean that in a general way, affecting all my practices, and short comings; or just my spelling?
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Jul, 2003 10:54 am
Bo

No.
0 Replies
 
BoGoWo
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Jul, 2003 11:15 am
Oh.
0 Replies
 
alterreality
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Jul, 2003 11:44 am
Thank you Bogowo, That was what I was kinda geting at with the name. I first thought it'd be odd with a contrast and when I started to see if there were any othermeanings Ithought of Alter as in AlterEgo. hmmm.

One of the reasons why I am convinced we have a soul is passion, hope, and the way we take all of our sences into one and call it our own reality or life, It all blends in and makes us human. Does any one agree?

To acepoly: I do believe we have freewill but to only a certain extent. I mean a brain is still chemicals isnt it. Chemicals that react like they do any where else. Its just like I said in last paragraph. I find it hard to believe that all that is material and chemical reactions. To me it makes more scense that we have a non molecular self aswell.
0 Replies
 
alterreality
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Jul, 2003 11:45 am
What does your name mean Bo?

and cool name acepoly. kinda like an oxymoron to. Was that what you were going for cos if so it is very clever Smile
0 Replies
 
BoGoWo
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Jul, 2003 12:45 pm
My name is a serendipitous alliteration; sonic fun.

alterEgo; have you ever heard of "Ocam's Razor"; it is a logical device whereas you pare away all information about a subject that is not directly related, or provable, and, what you have left, is the truth (a somewhat idealized concept, but useful).
While I like your "passion" and suggest you hang on to it, like a life preserver, in a storm tossed ocean, you must also examine reality with more scrutiny, giving ideas a more stringent assessment before adopting them as your own. Passion is the human animal's protection against the unknown, allowing us to react without understanding, but has been abused by centuries of tradition, preempting an individual response with a preprogrammed institutional one.
Do your own thinking; and to do that you must begin with a clean slate. Throw out all the old worn outdated beliefs. Then build your concepts of life like painting, careful considered layer over laboriously applied layer with occasional dashes of brilliance, untill you have your own image of
existence.

And, oh yes, I suggest you change "plain" to "plane" in your signature; it will make it fancier.
0 Replies
 
alterreality
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Jul, 2003 01:07 pm
yes but what about hope?
0 Replies
 
BoGoWo
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Jul, 2003 07:38 am
Jeeze AlteR;
at 17 the entire universe represents hope! Shocked

Go for it! Laughing
0 Replies
 
Dux
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Jul, 2003 01:18 pm
Sorry for not understanding the pet subject thing acepoly.

Hope may be(just a guess from, nothing else, it ain't a fact or what so ever) just the lack of security to accomplish a goal, though you still look it with an optimistic point of view. Security helps us survive, since it makes us trust more, but also insecurity makes us stay alert, so hope may also be a biological function, kind of in the middle of those to.

PS.- While the subject of hope, it comes to mind something regarding the subject, the myth of pandora's box, & it also comes to my mind the interpretation Nietzsche gave to it, that hope was even worse than all the other diseases, etc, so that's why it stayed on the box while the other ones escaped. I like more the interpretation that after everything bad comes hope. What do you guys think about it?
0 Replies
 
JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Jul, 2003 04:11 pm
truth
Alterreality, it seems to me that BoGoWo's advice to you is well conceived. And we should all consider following it. But be aware that if you do, you might end like him. Laughing
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Jul, 2003 04:19 pm
ha, ha, ha.... Laughing Arrow Exclamation Idea
0 Replies
 
alterreality
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Jul, 2003 06:15 pm
hehe.

I ment how do we have hope? i cant put an explanation to it, It isnt really an instinct, Its like a will. I have tried to think of a reason for it and as of now I havnt I will carry on believing we have a free will and soul.

Can any one give any scientific insight into this.
0 Replies
 
JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Jul, 2003 07:16 pm
truth
I don't want to repeat things said in other threads on this issue of determinism vs. free will. You might look for the thread for alot of opinions. But let me suggest for consideration the possibility that the distinction between determinism and free will, as metaphysical categories, constitute a false dichotomy. In short, it's a false problem. I wouldn't spend time pursuing IF I were you. Believe what you "will"; it makes no real difference in your life. Determinists and free will-ists behave the same as far as I can tell. As the Pragmatists might put it, it's a difference that makes no difference.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Jul, 2003 07:35 pm
That's for dang sure! c.i.
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

How can we be sure? - Discussion by Raishu-tensho
Proof of nonexistence of free will - Discussion by litewave
Destroy My Belief System, Please! - Discussion by Thomas
Star Wars in Philosophy. - Discussion by Logicus
Existence of Everything. - Discussion by Logicus
Is it better to be feared or loved? - Discussion by Black King
Paradigm shifts - Question by Cyracuz
 
Copyright © 2025 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.03 seconds on 01/15/2025 at 02:46:51