We have no true free will because whatever we do, even my rebellion of the idea, is all created by the media, the structures of life, and the controlling nature of mankind.
Futilism lumps in with Time.
When I make plans to travel around the world on tour, is that free will or not? What makes it not free will? c.i.
You Have to believe in Free Will.
You have no choice.
[Isaac Bashival Singer]
I've believed in free will/choice most of my life, but according to some in this forum, that's not so. c.i.
fancytickler wrote:You Have to believe in Free Will.
You have no choice.
[Isaac Bashival Singer]
Tickler, that I liked. Good to see you here.
SCHOPENHAUER
A favorite quote from Schopenhauer, Arthur - 1788-1860:
"Man will do what he will, but he cannot will what he'll do."
A noted German philosopher of pessimism, Schopenhauer believed life was a curse of endless craving and endless unhappness. Pleasure is not happiness, but merely the momentary satisfying of desire. To secure happiness, he believed men must give up all their desires and try to reach a condition of denial similar to the Nirvana of Buddhism. The only reality in the universe is a blind universal force he called "will." But the "will" seemed to him to be often unreasonable and irresponsible, and so he decided that things would never improve.[/color]
truth
I thought this dictum of Schopenhauer was "Man can do as he will, but he cannot will as he wills." Nevermind the point's the same. His pessimism is famous and that is not what I appreciate about him; it's his idealism, that our experienced life is more a function of our consciousness than of anything else. We make our world. By the way, his use of the Upanishads was, I think, imperfect. The Buddha was NOT a pessimist; he was a realist. He did note that life is predomiantly sorrow (dukkha) or disattisfaction,and that he could show us the way out of it. This way out was nothing like Schopenhauer's ascetic suicide.
Charli, I beg to differ. Happiness is not a momentary satisfaction of desire. Rather, it's a balance against all the other emotions we experience in our give and take of life. I think it depends a great deal upon our environment, and how the majority of people that one comes in contact with on a daiily basis determines the level of happiness, sadness, anger, and all the emotions of life. It may be true that some on this earth struggle with unhappiness most of their waking lives, because they lack food, shelter, and the other pleasures that are availble to humans. c.i.
truth
I thought this dictum (one of my favorites too) of Schopenhauer was "Man can do as he will, but he cannot will as he will." Nevermind, the point's the same. His pessimism is famous and that is not what I appreciate about him; it's his idealism, that our experienced life (our phenomenal world) is a function of our consciousness: we make our world. By the way, his use of the Upanishads was seminal but, I think, imperfect. The Buddha was NOT a pessimist; he was a realist. He did note that life is predomiantly sorrow (dukkha) or disattisfaction, but that he could show us the way out of that sorrow. This way out was nothing like Schopenhauer's ascetic suicide.
AND . . .
And, another great "philosopher" said, "For whosoever will save his life shall lose it (for a Greater Power beyond oneself)," which somehow doesn't seem to me to agree with that companion belief of "predestination." If one is predestined, how can one make a choice of whether to lose their life for a Greater Good? Tomorrow I'll check Plato's philosophy on this matter. Too late tonight - unless y'all know and will post those ideas/teachings here. As most are aware, the story of the Good Samaritan and JFK's famous "Ask Not What . . . ," etc., can be found in Plato. "There's nothing new under the sun"? 'Tis the witching hour. Until tomorrow . . . [/color]
I always find these boards when they already have so many posts I can't possibly find the strength, or desire, to read them.
So much education here. So many well read people. But, in free-will is there not original thought?
From what I have read, all base opinions on the writing of another. You might as well take the bibles word and decide were are all hell bound.
These writers, philosophers, psychoanalysts; mere mortal men, may not be the ones who knew.
Free will vs. predestination? Hmm.
From a completely uneducated point of view it comes down to this;
Which had you rather?
If you decide you are predestined, it is easy to be. If you decide you have freewill, that too is easily accomplished. If you decide it doesn't matter, you will probably live as you see fit.
An arguement for freewill? Maybe.
Or maybe I simply had to say that.
Either way, it happened, is now history, and no longer can serve its purpose in such a discussion.
this thread is deja vue;
didn't somebody already free Willy?
truth
Free will? When I look back I see that all was (in a sense) inevitable; but when I look forward I see that all is (in a sense) open to choice. It's a paradox to me.
Robwill, WELCOME to A2K. The way to cheat is to read the last page or two, then proceed with your post. It works almost every time - for me.
c.i.
"Freewill" is rationed out in different volumes for everybody. How we cope and think outside the box is a struggle, and most of us do not succeed in accomplishing freewill. c.i.
Expectation is a premonition
while determination is a gaurentee.
Persistence determines luck and fate
yet how we judge our selves creates an iron destiny.
Free will springs from our intention and planning,
dedicated execution kept open to serendipity.
Slavery is within our own linearity,
the habit of thoughtless blind reactioning.
Thy will be done, but it costs so much
awareness, value, movement graced by clarity,
such deliberation
that it certainly is not free.
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PS -- That's Code for "Yes", tired and silly me.
Codeborg I want to argue with you but I just don't know how! ice cream or pizza?
We reallydon't have freewill do we? Most life on this earth is based on economics or working on the farm to grow your own food and shelter. Unless we comply with those imperatives, we starve or die from exposure.
