Why not Hiilary Clinton for president?

Hillary is pretty low on my list. Probably just because I don't like her and prefer to support a liberal.
Vote early
vote often
vote Kucinich.

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The beauty of electing Hillary is that we get a package deal including Bill.

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I am with you in spirit Dyslexia (except for the damned electability thing).

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I doubt that Kucinich. could get elected even if he were the only one running. Check that.. He would have to be the only
one running to get elected.

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ebrown_p wrote:

I am with you in spirit Dyslexia (except for the damned electability thing).

Actually, I no longer consider "electability." At this stage in my life I prefer to vote what i think is right. I might think differently were I younger.

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bm

(reading along here for my own edification.. I'm very curious to know why Hillary Clinton appears to be so disliked by so many Americans. Personal or political reasons, or what .... ? I didn't think that see was that bad, but then, what would I know? Please continue ...)

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msolga wrote:

bm

(reading along here for my own edification.. I'm very curious to know why Hillary Clinton appears to be so disliked by so many Americans. Personal or political reasons, or what .... ? I didn't think that see was that bad, but then, what would I know? Please continue ...)

Personal AND political reasons.

I don't like her personality, lack of charm, and poor oratory skills. She isn't going to win anyone over with stirring speeches.

I don't like her history. Too many skeletons, I don't need to hear Republicans going on and on about Whitewater and other crap for another decade, thanks.

Politically, she tries to play both ends against the middle and fails; she doesn't have the triangulation down the way Bill did...

Cheers

Cycloptichorn

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msolga wrote:

bm

(reading along here for my own edification.. I'm very curious to know why Hillary Clinton appears to be so disliked by so many Americans. Personal or political reasons, or what .... ? I didn't think that see was that bad, but then, what would I know? Please continue ...)

Hope you have more success getting that answer than I have

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au1929 wrote:

msolga wrote:
bm

(reading along here for my own edification.. I'm very curious to know why Hillary Clinton appears to be so disliked by so many Americans. Personal or political reasons, or what .... ? I didn't think that see was that bad, but then, what would I know? Please continue ...)

Hope you have more success getting that answer than I have

You got a complete answer from me not a half an hour after you posted, with several different points; so please refrain from the hyperbole

Reading this thread, it really seems to me that you don't consider any reason not to support Hillary, to be a valid one...

Cycloptichorn

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Thanks for that, Cycloptichorn.
Interesting.

(I'll continue reading now.)

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msolga wrote:

bm

(reading along here for my own edification.. I'm very curious to know why Hillary Clinton appears to be so disliked by so many Americans. Personal or political reasons, or what .... ? I didn't think that see was that bad, but then, what would I know? Please continue ...)

Hillary isn't that bad. I don't dislike her... I just don't want her to be president (or even a candidate) . She made a fine first lady and enough of her consituents seem to think she makes a good Senator that she won the election.

The problem is the question that started this thread is completely wrong. We shouldn't ask "Why not (elect Hillary as president?)? The real question is "Why should Hillary be president"? No one has given me a good reason for this.

I dismiss Hillary as a presidential candidate-- not as a human being or even as a politician.

A presidential candidate I will support will have have the courage and integrity to stand up for the issues I care about. Even candidates with the moral courage to stand up for issues I don't care about get points for having the guts and conviction. On issue after issue, she takes the easy way out and avoids anything that may be politically risky.

The problem with Hillary is that she hasn't shown integrity or courage or even consistancy (except perhaps for one failed bid at health care).

The real fear I have is that because of her star power, and the thrill of having a female candidate, she will eclipse someone who will make a much better candidate and a much better president.

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Actually, ebrown, I was wondering if in her case being a woman was actually a disadvantage. I mean many (most?) male politicians do some pretty ruthless things, do deals & make all sorts of compromises to further their careers if they are really serious about succeeding. Is it somehow considered worse (from the point of view of her potential supporters, anyway) that she appeared much more "liberal" & progressive in the past and is now seen as selling out in her quest for power? And there's a nagging feeling that electors don't like seeing women politicians act just as tough, be just as able to wheel & deal and be just as incline to make pragmatic compromises as their male conterparts.

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Things lend themselves to that interpretation so I know where you're coming from, but that doesn't resonate for me with Hillary. The people who say these things are people who admire strength in women as a general concept, people who I've seen walk the walk and not just talk the talk.

Well, let me be more specific. I think she is disliked for a wide variety of reasons, and probably some of them are what you mention. I don't think that's happening with ebrown or Cycloptichorn, to name just two. And when you have feminist liberals like them who dislike her, and then a vast swath of conservatives who hate her passionately, that's when I come in saying that even though I like her fine personally, the deck is stacked against her to such an extent that I really want to find someone else to be the Democratic candidate.

I also very much agree with what Cycloptichorn said earlier (I've said it too I think), that there is something about the prospect of 28 years of governance by the same two last names that makes me itch. Let's move ON.

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.... & I doubt that being a pushy, ambitious woman would be a winner with ultra-conservative voters, either! :wink:

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Thanks. I'm finding it really interesting to see how all you folks see the Hillary question, soz. Never quite "got" it before, but then I'm a long way away from the action.

Sorry to divert your conversation, folks.
Please carry on ...

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msolga wrote:

Actually, ebrown, I was wondering if in her case being a woman was actually a disadvantage. I mean many (most?) male politicians do some pretty ruthless things, do deals & make all sorts of compromises to further their careers if they are really serious about succeeding. Is it somehow considered worse (from the point of view of her potential supporters, anyway) that she appeared much more "liberal" & progressive in the past and is now seen as selling out in her quest for power? And there's a nagging feeling that electors don't like seeing women politicians act just as tough, be just as able to wheel & deal and be just as incline to make pragmatic compromises as their male conterparts.

I think that Hillary being a woman is the reason we are having this discussion. If she were a man, she would be considered too mediocre for the white house by everyone.

When considering who should be president we should apply the same standards to women and to men.

I want someone who is tough, politically savvy and can fight for issues I care about.

My problem iwith Hillary isn't that she is a tough women, it is that she isn't a tough person (in the sense of being willing to take decisive positions on important but contentious issues).

This has nothing to do with her being a woman. I am just looking for a candidate with the balls to take a difficult stand on issues outside of a calculated middle position.

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HC can't be viewed as a man or woman, she's a control freak, she lives eats & breathes power, she needs it like an addict needs a fix. She can't be trusted to run this counntry for the good of the country, only for the good of hillary. She has no core.

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LoneStarMadam wrote:

HC can't be viewed as a man or woman, she's a control freak, she lives eats & breathes power, she needs it like an addict needs a fix. She can't be trusted to run this counntry for the good of the country, only for the good of hillary. She has no core.

Boy, a person could assume that you have some kind of close personal association with Hillary Clinton. "she's a control freak, she lives eats & breathes power, she needs it like an addict needs a fix." You can tell all this how? If you don't mind, answer with specific examples which prove she is a control freak addicted to power.

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Eyes & ears are all that's required to know that she's a control freak.
You believe that all the folks here that talk about politicians know them personally? Wow!! Shocked

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Cycloptichorn wrote:

msolga wrote:
bm

(reading along here for my own edification.. I'm very curious to know why Hillary Clinton appears to be so disliked by so many Americans. Personal or political reasons, or what .... ? I didn't think that see was that bad, but then, what would I know? Please continue ...)

Personal AND political reasons.

I don't like her personality, lack of charm, and poor oratory skills. She isn't going to win anyone over with stirring speeches.

FROM MY OBSERVATION, SHE IS WELL LIKED BY THOSE WHO KNOW HER. SHE IS AN EXCELLENT AND EFFECTIVE SPEAKER, WHO MAKES A GOOD IMPRESSION. SHE WON OVER THOSE IN THE SENATE WITH HER SPEECHES.

I don't like her history. Too many skeletons, I don't need to hear Republicans going on and on about Whitewater and other crap for another decade, thanks.

MOST OF THE CANDIDATES HAVE SKELETONS. EVEN OBAMA HAS A PROBLEM CONCERNING A REAL ESTATE DEAL. WHAT IS IMPORTANT IS THAT WE ELECT AN EXCELLENT PERSON AS PRESIDENT.

Politically, she tries to play both ends against the middle and fails; she doesn't have the triangulation down the way Bill did...

I HAVEN'T SEEN THIS. DO YOU HAVE ANY SPECIFICS?

Cheers

Cycloptichorn

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Why not Hiilary Clinton for president?

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