Is U.S. income tax invalid?

Richard:
Just FYI: IRS just lost a big case from some company who was paying contractors in gold and silver coins. Because basing the coins on their face amount the company wasnt even required to file 1099s and such. Evidently they would give a guy a morgan dollar for payment for x amount of labor, but it could only be counted a dollar for income tax purposes.


Richard, Can you provide a source for this incident? It's the first time I'm hearing about this scam. LOL

parados wrote:

So Richard.. when are you going to tell me what a T-bond is worth compared to Federal Reserve Notes.

I get the impression you don't want to tell us because it would make you look like a fool.

I figured it would be just more wasted conversation with you. But I'll indulge you.

While both T-Bonds and Federal Reserve Notes are denominated in dollars, the federal reserve notes wind up costing more than their face value. In fact it creates a situation where there is never enough money in circulation to pay off the debt created by the issuance of the currency.

Look at a $100 FRN from 1963. How much has that cost the govt so far?
At a 5% interest rate the government has already paid $220 for it over the years and must still pay $100 to redeem it. So the real cost of this $100 is really $320.

Compare that to a $100 US Note from 1963. How much has that cost the govt so far? Somewhere around 2 cents.

So should the country have to pay $320 or 2 cents for a $100 Bill ?

The real issue here is seignorage. Honestly, if a country like America can issue a $100 Bond, why shouldn't it be able to issue a $100 Bill?

Cohan was upbeat although his client, Kahre, was not acquitted of any of his 109 charges. Rather, the jury hung on all of Kahre's counts.

The jury also hung on all counts faced by Kahre's sister, Lori Kahre, and defendant Alex Loglia.

Michael Kennedy, who defended Lori Kahre, said the case turned on the notion that taxpayers could be wrong without being criminal. He was referring to the fact that his client, Lori Kahre, and other defendants had not paid taxes according to the market value of the precious metal content of the coins in which they were paid, as opposed to their face value. He conceded at trial that his client may owe federal taxes for her mistakes.

Jurors got stuck on the question of whether the government had proved defendants intentionally violated tax law, according to David Ramirez, jury foreman. "Oh my God, the willfulness is very hard to prove, as we found out," Ramirez, 49, said Wednesday. "That was the hard part, especially in the conspiracy charge."

By controlling Congress, the FED has been able to control the nominating conventions of both political parties. In this way, it has been able to hand-pick the presidential nominees so that no matter which party wins, their nominee for President is under definite obligations to the FED.

In 1975, the Rockefeller Foundation Report discussed the "Interdependence" of the countries of the world on each other. It stated we are one world and America shall become a nation-state under one government. They also say we must reach a zero state population growth. The Rockefeller Foundation stated that they have in excess of 747 million dollars to achieve this.

Congressman John R. Rarick states that the Council on Foreign Relations CFR) is dedicated to a one world government. The media remains conspicuously quiet. The CFR wants to convert the U.S. from a sovereign, constitutional republic into a servile member state of a one world dictatorship.

On February 17, 1950, CFR member James Warburg (banker, and architect of the Federal Reserve System) stated before a Senate Foreign Relations Committee,

"We shall have one world government whether or not you like it, by conquest or consent."

Again, the media remained silent. In the April 1974 issue of the CFR journal, "Foreign Affairs", page 558, Richard Gardener states that the new world order;

"will be built... but an end run around national sovereignty, eroding it piece by piece, will accomplish much more than the old fashioned frontal assault."

Congressman McDonald, Heinz and Tower stated that this is a conspiracy. Again, the media remained silent.


Wake up people!

Richard:
Just FYI: IRS just lost a big case from some company who was paying contractors in gold and silver coins. Because basing the coins on their face amount the company wasnt even required to file 1099s and such. Evidently they would give a guy a morgan dollar for payment for x amount of labor, but it could only be counted a dollar for income tax purposes.


Richard, Can you provide a source for this incident? It's the first time I'm hearing about this scam. LOL

Richard Saunders wrote:

parados wrote:

So Richard.. when are you going to tell me what a T-bond is worth compared to Federal Reserve Notes.

I get the impression you don't want to tell us because it would make you look like a fool.

I figured it would be just more wasted conversation with you. But I'll indulge you.

While both T-Bonds and Federal Reserve Notes are denominated in dollars, the federal reserve notes wind up costing more than their face value. In fact it creates a situation where there is never enough money in circulation to pay off the debt created by the issuance of the currency.

Look at a $100 FRN from 1963. How much has that cost the govt so far?
At a 5% interest rate the government has already paid $220 for it over the years and must still pay $100 to redeem it. So the real cost of this $100 is really $320.

Borrowing money costs interest. OMG stop the world, Richard has just discovered something that everyone else has always known. The Federal government would still have to borrow money if they printed the notes. The Federal government HAD debt from its inception even before the Federal Reserve and before the US government ever printed paper money. If the federal government prints money without borrowing then it causes inflation.

Quote:

Compare that to a $100 US Note from 1963. How much has that cost the govt so far? Somewhere around 2 cents.

No. It would cost them the same amount in interest since they borrowed the money in support of that bill.

Quote:

So should the country have to pay $320 or 2 cents for a $100 Bill ?

It doesn't pay $320 for the $100 bill. It pays interest on the borrowed money. And it pays that interest on BOTH bills. Your argument ignores facts and instead pretends that the only money the US government borrows is from the FED.

Quote:

The real issue here is seignorage. Honestly, if a country like America can issue a $100 Bond, why shouldn't it be able to issue a $100 Bill?

The $100 bond is issued with a promise that the US government will pay interest on it. The $100 bill as you want it printed would be issued with no promise and would dilute the value of all the other dollars.


But you didn't tell us what a Federal Reserve Note is worth and what a Fed T-Bond is worth in your view.

Amazing isn't it? The Federal government owes interest to private individuals as well as the Fed but somehow Richard thinks only the Fed gets paid interest.

Tryagain wrote:

By controlling Congress, the FED has been able to control the nominating conventions of both political parties. In this way, it has been able to hand-pick the presidential nominees so that no matter which party wins, their nominee for President is under definite obligations to the FED.

In 1975, the Rockefeller Foundation Report discussed the "Interdependence" of the countries of the world on each other. It stated we are one world and America shall become a nation-state under one government. They also say we must reach a zero state population growth. The Rockefeller Foundation stated that they have in excess of 747 million dollars to achieve this.

Congressman John R. Rarick states that the Council on Foreign Relations CFR) is dedicated to a one world government. The media remains conspicuously quiet. The CFR wants to convert the U.S. from a sovereign, constitutional republic into a servile member state of a one world dictatorship.

On February 17, 1950, CFR member James Warburg (banker, and architect of the Federal Reserve System) stated before a Senate Foreign Relations Committee,

"We shall have one world government whether or not you like it, by conquest or consent."

Again, the media remained silent. In the April 1974 issue of the CFR journal, "Foreign Affairs", page 558, Richard Gardener states that the new world order;

"will be built... but an end run around national sovereignty, eroding it piece by piece, will accomplish much more than the old fashioned frontal assault."

Congressman McDonald, Heinz and Tower stated that this is a conspiracy. Again, the media remained silent.


Wake up people!

Some people do need to wake up.
1.The President can't write his own laws. You might want to read the constitution.
2. Hey, its 2007. When is that "new world order" coming that you are so afraid of? At this rate it will be here by 3150.

Since the US government can print money without borrowing why is there over 5 trillion in publicly held debt?

If the US was to print 1 trillion dollars in US notes without borrowing money, what would happen to the value of the dollar? I'll give you a BIG hint. It would drop.

parados wrote:

Amazing isn't it? The Federal government owes interest to private individuals as well as the Fed but somehow Richard thinks only the Fed gets paid interest.

Why do you persist in talking out of your ass?

Only the Fed gets paid to make money for the government. And again, since they get to create all the money out of thin air, they can make all the money they want for themselves should they want to buy any assets from anybody they want. They could write you a check to buy your car or house if they wanted to, from money that doesnt even exist.

parados wrote:

Since the US government can print money without borrowing why is there over 5 trillion in publicly held debt?

If the US was to print 1 trillion dollars in US notes without borrowing money, what would happen to the value of the dollar? I'll give you a BIG hint. It would drop.

The borrowing money thing doesnt prevent inflation. I was taugh that same bullshit man. Look around at inflation. The govt borrows for money all the time and prices are going up up up.. Its a charade to fool you.

What do you think an executive order is?

By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, including the International Emergency Economic Powers Act (50 U.S.C. 1701 et seq.) (IEEPA), the National Emergencies Act (50 U.S.C. 1601 et seq.), the Burmese Freedom and Democracy Act of 2003 (Public Law 108-61, as amended, 50 U.S.C. 1701 note), and section 301 of title 3, United States Code,

By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the
laws of the United States of America, and in furtherance of purposes of
the National Trails System Act of 1968, as amended (16 U.S.C. 1241-1251),
the Transportation Equity Act for the 21st Century (Public Law 105-178),
and other pertinent statutes,

Richard Saunders wrote:

parados wrote:

Amazing isn't it? The Federal government owes interest to private individuals as well as the Fed but somehow Richard thinks only the Fed gets paid interest.

Why do you persist in talking out of your ass?

Only the Fed gets paid to make money for the government. And again, since they get to create all the money out of thin air, they can make all the money they want for themselves should they want to buy any assets from anybody they want. They could write you a check to buy your car or house if they wanted to, from money that doesnt even exist.

Who is talking out of their ass?

Which of the following are false?

There are only about 800 billion in Fed notes in circulation.
Fed notes replaced the US notes that were retired.
The present debt held by the public is about $5 trillion
The present debt held by government trust funds is about $4 trillion
The Fed uses an actual accounting system.
The Fed REPORTS its assets and debits to Congress.
The Fed returns any excess profits to the Treasury. http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Senate/3616/flaherty7.html


The only ones talking out of their ass are those that claim the Fed is making hundreds of billions to trillions off the sale of Fed notes to the US government.

Richard Saunders wrote:

parados wrote:

Since the US government can print money without borrowing why is there over 5 trillion in publicly held debt?

If the US was to print 1 trillion dollars in US notes without borrowing money, what would happen to the value of the dollar? I'll give you a BIG hint. It would drop.

The borrowing money thing doesnt prevent inflation. I was taugh that same bullshit man. Look around at inflation. The govt borrows for money all the time and prices are going up up up.. Its a charade to fool you.

There are LOTS of causes of inflation. You are just filled with logical fallacies. Just because inflation is caused by forces in the free market doesn't suddenly mean that printing too much money no longer causes inflation.

Why didn't you answer my simple question? Would printing $1 trillion of US notes cause inflation by devaluing the dollar? Yes or no?