Is U.S. income tax invalid?

Richard S is correct; nothing backs up the US currency. I think it was back in the 70s when the US declared that the US currency stood by itself without anything like gold or silver to back it up. It still does say "In God We Trust" though. LOL

Who doesn't listen?

What did Kennedy do?

As for your specious claim that the Fed can issue money without government approval. Do you have ANY facts to support it? Why would Congress have to pass legislation to increase the debt limit if the FED can print any money it wants to?

Your arguments are contradictory. You claim the Fed can print money without the government asking for it. But you also claim the government issues a bond for every dollar the Fed issues. You can't have it both ways. Either the government buys the money with bonds or they don't.

Who doesnt listen? YOU!

The EO Allowed the Treasury to issue SILVER CERTIFICATES.

These are DIFFERENT than UNITED STATES NOTES.

Heres a map if you need pictures ill provide them:
Federal Reserve Note = GREEN SEAL [Not Backed by Silver]
United States Note = RED SEAL [Not Backed by Silver]
Silver Certificate = BLUE SEAL [Backed By Silver]

THE EO Allowed them to produce SILVER CERTIFICATES.. But none were evidently ever made from that EO.. The United States Notes that WERE printed that year are backed by nothing. However you could still cash in a $1 US Note for a $1 Silver Dollar.

Now on to the Fed.. Remember months ago that I told you, that you didnt understand the debt monetization process? Well, you dont. And this is why you dont understand this difference.

The Fed can create any money it wants. Like it recently did with the whole mortgage loan crisis.. It simply writes a check to a bank to buy a note and voila there is money created. Did it cost the gov't anything? NO.. Because the gov't didnt buy that money from the fed.

When the gov't NEEDS MONEY, then it has to pay for the money with gov't securities, be they Treasury, Bonds, Bills, or Notes. They Exchange $1 Billion in T-Bonds for $1 Billion in cash and now they have $1 Billion to spend in newly created money. (Of course they still have a debt of $1 Billion more )

If the country Issued its own UNITED STATES NOTES then it would have $1 Billion in cash WITHOUT a $1 Billion debt created.

Do you understand this now?

The EO in 1963 did NOT make the US government print Silver notes. The last silver notes were issued in 1957. EO 1110 doesn't mention anything BUT silver notes. EO1110 doesn't make anyone print anything.

Please show me where EO1110 required notes to be printed.

The claim that EO1110 made the US govt print US notes is false. COMPLETELY FALSE.

I never said the EO required anything to be printed; it authorized them.
I said the EO authorized SILVER CERTIFICATES.. I also said that there werent any made. Do you still not understand I am talking about 2 different types of currency?

I guess you need pictures.. There is no such thing as "Silver Notes".. There are only SILVER *CERTIFICATES* and UNITED STATES *NOTES*

THe EO HAs nothing to do with US NOTES, it is only concerned with SILVER CERTIFICATES..

1963 $2 UNITED STATES NOTE [NOT BACKED BY SILVER]


THIS IS A $10 SILVER CERTIFICATE



IS THIS WHOLE DEBT MONETIZATION GETTING THROUGH TO YOU YET?

W`

W' ?


Ill take that as a no....

I never said you said it. I cited where Try posted it. You have argued what I said was wrong when I pointed out the error in Try's statement.

Do you agree with Try that EEO 1110 ordered the government to issue notes? Yes or No?

Thank you Richard, a very clear and informative view.


Parados wrote, and not for the first time, "Do you agree with Try that EEO 1110 ordered the government to issue notes? Yes or No?"


This has already been answered in terms that even I can understand. However if it still not clear….


The final production of $1 Silver Certificates occurred in late 1963. In 1964 the redemption of Silver Certificates for silver coin ended and in 1968 the redemption of Silver Certificates for silver bullion ended.

Production of one dollar Federal Reserve Notes was undertaken in late 1963 to replace the soon-to-be obsolete $1 Silver Certificate. The design on the reverse remained the same, but the border design on the obverse was completely redesigned and the serial numbers and treasury seal were printed in green ink. This was the first time the one dollar bill was printed as a Federal Reserve Note.

On June 4, 1963, a virtually unknown Presidential decree, Executive Order 11110, was signed by President John Fitzgerald Kennedy with the intention to strip the Federal Reserve Bank of its power to loan money to the United States Federal Government at interest. With the stroke of a pen, President Kennedy declared that the privately owned Federal Reserve Bank would soon be out of business. This matter has been exhaustively researched by the Christian Common Law Institute through the Federal Register and Library of Congress, and the Institute has conclude that President Kennedy's Executive Order has never been repealed, amended, or superceded by any subsequent Executive Order. In simple terms, it is still valid.


When John Fitzgerald Kennedy, author of Profiles in Courage, signed this Order, it returned to the federal government, specifically to the Treasury Department, the Constitutional power to create and issue currency -- money -- without going through the privately owned Federal Reserve Bank. President Kennedy's Executive Order 11110 gave the Treasury Department the explicit authority: "to issue silver certificates against any silver bullion, silver, or standard silver dollars in the Treasury" [the full text is displayed below]. This means that for every ounce of silver in the U.S. Treasury's vault, the government could introduce new money into circulation based on the silver bullion physically held therein. As a result, more than $4 billion in United States Notes were brought into circulation in $2 and $5 denominations. Although $10 and $20 United States Notes were never circulated, they were being printed by the Treasury Department when Kennedy was assassinated.


Certainly it's obvious that President Kennedy knew that the Federal Reserve Notes being circulated as "legal currency" were contrary to the Constitution of the United States, which calls for issuance of "United States Notes" as interest-free and debt-free currency backed by silver reserves in the U.S. Treasury. Comparing a "Federal Reserve Note" issued from the private central bank of the United States (i.e., the Federal Reserve Bank a/k/a Federal Reserve System), with a "United States Note" from the U.S. Treasury (as issued by President Kennedy's Executive Order), the two almost look alike, except one says "Federal Reserve Note" on the top while the other says "United States Note". In addition, the Federal Reserve Note has a green seal and serial number while the United States Note has a red seal and serial number. Following President Kennedy's assassination on November 22, 1963, the United States Notes he had issued were immediately taken out of circulation, and Federal Reserve Notes continued to serve as the "legal currency" of the nation.


Kennedy knew that if the silver-backed United States Notes were widely circulated, they would eliminated the demand for Federal Reserve Notes. This is a simple matter of economics. USNs were backed by silver and FRNs were (still are) backed by nothing of intrinsic value. As a result of Executive Order 11110, the national debt would have prevented from reaching its current level (almost all of the $9 trillion in federal debt has been created since 1963). Executive Order 11110 also granted the U.S. Government the power to repay past debt without further borrowing from the privately owned Federal Reserve which charged both principle and interest and all new "money" it "created." Finally, Executive Order 11110 gave the U.S.A. the ability to create its own money backed by silver, again giving money real value.

Perhaps President Kennedy's assassination was a warning to future presidents not to interfere with the private Federal Reserve's control over the creation of money. For, with true courage, JFK had boldly challenged the two most successful vehicles that have ever been used to drive up debt: 1) war (i.e., the Vietnam war); and, 2) the creation of money by a privately owned central bank. His efforts to have all U.S. troops out of Vietnam by 1965 combined with Executive Order 11110 would have destroyed the profits and control of the private Federal Reserve Bank.

Executive Order 11110, the AMENDMENT of EXECUTIVE ORDER No. 10289, as amended RELATING to the PERFORMANCE of CERTAIN FUNCTIONS AFFECTING the DEPARTMENT of the TREASURY:

By virtue of the authority vested in me by section 301 of Title 3 of the United States Code, it is ordered as follows:

SECTION 1. Executive Order No. 10289 of September 19, 1951, as amended, is hereby further amended (a) By adding at the end of paragraph 1 thereof the following subparagraph (j): "(j) The authority vested in the President by paragraph (b) of section 43 of the Act of May 12, 1933, as amended (31 U.S.C. 821 (b)), to issue silver certificates against any silver bullion, silver, or standard silver dollars in the Treasury not then held for redemption of any outstanding silver certificates, to prescribe the denominations of such silver certificates, and to coin standard silver dollars and subsidiary silver currency for their redemption," and (b) By revoking subparagraphs (b) and (c) of paragraph 2 thereof.

SECTION 2. The amendment made by this Order shall not affect any act done, or any right accruing or accrued or any suit or proceeding had or commenced in any civil or criminal cause prior to the date of this Order but all such liabilities shall continue and may be enforced as if said amendments had not been made.
JOHN F. KENNEDY
THE WHITE HOUSE,
June 4, 1963

As said, Executive Order 11110 is still valid. According to Title 3, United States Code, Section 301 dated January 26, 1998: Executive Order (EO) 10289 dated Sept. 17, 1951, 16 F.R. 9499, was as amended by:

EO 10583, dated December 18, 1954, 19 F.R. 8725;
EO 10882 dated July 18, 1960, 25 F.R. 6869;
EO 11110 dated June 4, 1963, 28 F.R. 5605;
EO 11825 dated December 31, 1974, 40 F.R. 1003;
EO 12608 dated September 9, 1987, 52 F.R. 34617

The 1974 and 1987 amendments, added after Kennedy's 1963 amendment, did not change or alter any part of Kennedy's EO 11110. A search of Clinton's 1998 and 1999 EO's and Presidential Directives has shown no reference to any alterations, suspensions, or changes to EO 11110.

The Federal Reserve Bank, a.k.a Federal Reserve System, is a Private Corporation. Black's Law Dictionary defines the "Federal Reserve System" as: "Network of twelve central banks to which most national banks belong and to which state chartered banks may belong. Membership rules require investment of stock and minimum reserves." privately owned banks own the stock of the FED. This was explained in more detail in the case of Lewis v. United States, Federal Reporter, 2nd Series, Vol. 680, Pages 1239, 1241 (1982), where the court said: "Each Federal Reserve Bank is a separate corporation owned by commercial banks in its region. The stockholding commercial banks elect two-thirds of each Bank's nine member board of directors." In short, Federal Reserve Banks are locally controlled by their member banks.

Also, according to Black's Law Dictionary, these privately owned banks are "allowed" to issue money: "The Federal Reserve Act, created Federal Reserve banks which act as agents in maintaining money reserves, issuing money in the form of bank notes, lending money to banks, and supervising banks as administered by Federal Reserve Board (q.v.)." Thus the privately owned Federal Reserve (FED) banks are allowed to actually issue (create) the "money" we use.

In 1964, the House Committee on Banking and Currency, Subcommittee on Domestic Finance, at the second session of the 88th Congress, put out a study entitled Money Facts which contains a good description of what the FED is: "The Federal Reserve is a total moneymaking machine. It can issue money or checks. And it never has a problem of making its checks good because it can obtain the $5 and $10 bills necessary to cover its check simply by asking the Treasury Department's Bureau of Engraving to print them." Any one person or any closely knit group that has a lot of money has a lot of power. Imagine a group of people with the power to create money. Imagine the power these people would have. This is exactly what the privately owned FED is!

No man did more to expose the power of the FED than Louis T. McFadden, who was the Chairman of the House Banking Committee back in the 1930s. In describing the FED, he remarked in the Congressional Record, House pages 1295 and 1296 on June 10, 1932:

Mr. Chairman, we have in this country one of the most corrupt institutions the world has ever known. I refer to the Federal Reserve Board and the Federal reserve banks. The Federal Reserve Board, a Government Board, has cheated the Government of the United States and he people of the United States out of enough money to pay the national debt. The depredations and the iniquities of the Federal Reserve Board and the Federal reserve banks acting together have cost this country enough money to pay the national debt several times over. This evil institution has impoverished and ruined the people of the United States; has bankrupted itself, and has practically bankrupted our Government. It has done this through the maladministration of that law by which the Federal Reserve Board, and through the corrupt practices of the moneyed vultures who control it.

Some people think the Federal Reserve Banks are United States Government institutions. They are not Government institutions, departments, or agencies. They are private credit monopolies, which prey upon the people of the United States for the benefit of themselves and their foreign customers. Those 12 private credit monopolies were deceitfully placed upon this country by bankers who came here from Europe and who repaid us for our hospitality by undermining our American institutions.


The FED basically works like this: The government granted its power to create money to the FED banks. They create money, then loan it back to the government charging interest. The government levies income taxes to pay the interest on the debt. On this point, it's interesting to note that the Federal Reserve Act and the sixteenth amendment, which gave congress the power to collect income taxes, were both passed in 1913. The incredible power of the FED over the economy is universally admitted. Some people, especially in the banking and academic communities, support it. On the other hand, there are those like President John F. Kennedy, that have spoken out against it. His efforts were lauded about in Jim Marrs' 1990 book Crossfire:

Another overlooked aspect of Kennedy's attempt to reform American society involves money. Kennedy apparently reasoned that by returning to the constitution, which states that only Congress shall coin and regulate money, the soaring national debt could be reduced by not paying interest to the bankers of the Federal Reserve System, who print paper money then loan it to the government at interest. He moved in this area on June 4, 1963, by signing Executive Order 11110 which called for the issuance of $4,292,893,815 in United States Notes through the U.S. Treasury rather than the traditional Federal Reserve System. That same day, Kennedy signed a bill changing the backing of one and two dollar bills from silver to gold, adding strength to the weakened U.S. currency.

Kennedy's comptroller of the currency, James J. Saxon, had been at odds with the powerful Federal Reserve Board for some time, encouraging broader investment and lending powers for banks that were not part of the Federal Reserve system. Saxon also had decided that non-Reserve banks could underwrite general obligation bonds, again weakening the dominant Federal Reserve banks."

In a speech made to Columbia University on Nov. 12, 1963, ten days before his assassination, President John Fitzgerald Kennedy said:

"The high office of the President has been used to foment a plot to destroy the American's freedom and before I leave office, I must inform the citizen of this plight."

In this matter, John Fitzgerald Kennedy appears to be the subject of his own book... a true Profile of Courage. According to the Constitution of the United States, (Article 1 Section 8), only Congress has the authority to coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures. However, since 1913 this Article has been ignored by creation and existence of the Federal Reserve Act, which has given a private owned corporation the power and authority to "create" and coin the money of United States. The Federal Reserve is comprised of 12 private credit monopolies who have been given the authority to control the supply of the "Federal Reserve Notes," interest rates and all the other monetary and banking phenomena.


The way the Federal Reserve works is this: 12 private credit monopolies "create", (print), Federal Reserve Notes that are then "lent" to the American government. This is a circular affair in that the government grants the FED power to create the money, which the FED then loans back to the government, charging interests. The government levies income taxes to pay the interest on the debt. It is interesting to note that the Federal Reserve Act and the sixteenth amendment which gave congress the power to collect income taxes, were both passed in 1913. The Federal Reserve Notes are not backed by anything of "intrinsic" value. (i.e., gold or silver).

On June 4, 1963, President, John Fitzgerald Kennedy signed a Presidential decree, Executive Order 11110, which stripped the Federal Reserve Banking System of its power to loan money to the United States Federal Government at interest. This decree meant that for every ounce of silver in the U.S. Treasury's vault, the U.S. government could introduce new money into circulation based on the silver bullion physically held therein. As a result, more than $4 trillion in United States Notes were brought into circulation in $2 and $5 denominations. $10 and $20 United States Notes were never circulated but were being printed by the Treasury Department when Kennedy was assassinated. Kennedy knew that if the silver backed United States Notes were widely circulated, they would have eliminated the demand for Federal Reserve Notes. By giving the U.S. Treasury the Constitutional authority to coin U.S. money once again, EO 11110 would thus prevent the national debt from rising due to "usury" that the American people are charged for "borrowing" (i.e., using) FRN's.

Kennedy knew that, if Congress coined and regulated money, as the Constitution states, the national debt would be reduced by not paying interest to the 12 credit monopolies. This in itself would have allowed the American people freedom to freely use all the money they have earned, enabling the economy to grow. Now, Executive Order 11110 is still in effect, even though no U.S. President has had the courage to follow it. It is the duty of all Americans to question the Federal Reserve System and the power that we have given it by electing presidents that lack the courage of John Fitzgerald Kennedy.


Any questions?

Yes,....

Why is the last Silver certificate dated 1957?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_Certificate

Also from Wiki:

Fiat money

Main article: Fiat money

Fiat money is any money whose value is determined by legal means rather than the relative availability of goods and services. Fiat money may be symbolic of a commodity or government promises.[2]

Fiat money provides solutions to several limitations of commodity money. Depending on the laws, there may be little or no need to physically transport the money - an electronic exchange may be sufficient. Its sole use is as a medium of exchange so its supply is not limited by competing alternate uses. It can be printed without limit, so there is no limit on trade volumes.

Fiat money, especially in the form of paper or coins, can be easily damaged or destroyed. However, it has an advantage over commodity money in that the same laws that created the money can also define rules for its replacement in case of damage or destruction. For example, the US government will replace mutilated paper money if at least half of the bill can be reconstructed.[5]. By contrast commodity money is gone for good.

Paper money is especially vulnerable to everyday hazards: from fire, water, termites, and simple wear and tear. Money in the form of minted coins is sometimes destroyed by children placing it on railroad tracks or in amusement park machines that restamp it. In order to reduce replacement costs, many countries are converting to plastic bills. For example, Mexico has changed its twenty and fifty pesos notes, Singapore its $2, $5, $10 and $50 bills, Malaysia with RM5 bill, and Australia and New Zealand their $5, $10, $20, $50 and $100 to plastic for the increased durability.

Some of the benefits of fiat money can be a double-edged sword. For example, if the amount of money in active circulation outstrips the available goods and services for sale, the effect can be inflationary. This can easily happen if governments print money without attention to the level of economic activity or counterfeiters are allowed to flourish.

Perhaps the biggest criticism of paper money relates to the fact that its stability is highly dependent on the stability of the legal system backing the currency. Should the legal system fail, so would the currency that depends on it.

Setanta 's math makes sense;
however, without Ohio,
were there enuf votes ( 2/3, of each house of Congress )
to submit the amendment to the states for ratification ?

OmSigDAVID writes, "Setanta 's math makes sense;
however, without Ohio,
were there enuf votes ( 2/3, of each house of Congress )
to submit the amendment to the states for ratification ?"



You MakE a GooD POINT, But The PROPOSED AmEndmEnt haD bEEn IntroDuceD to CongreSS by The admInIstratIon oF WiLLiam H. TafT. TafT hAd bEEn borN iN CiNciNNati, OhiO, in 1857.

ThE ConsTiTuTion rEquirEs ThaT prEsidEnts bE nAturAl-bOrn cItIzens of The UniTed STaTes.

SiNce OhiO wAs noT a sTaTe in 1857, TafT wAs noT a nAturAl-boRn cItIzen; thTrEforE, cOuld nOt LegaLLy bE prEsidEnt, anD coulD nOt LegaLLy intrODuce thE 16th AmEndmEnt.

U r in error in asserting
that the Taft Administration introduced a constitutional amendment
into Congress; it cud not have done so and it did not.

The bill cud only be introduced into each house of Congress
by a member thereof.
David


P.S.:
U have an interesting filosofy of capitalization.
R u an aberrant capitalist ?




`

I wud not VISIT, but u WUD have my sympathy
and my moral support.
David

"Setanta 's math makes sense;"

"I believe that Setanta has already accurately pointed that out."


I believe in Father Christmas; but that does not make it so. Your hero worship of Mr/Miss Setanta although touching, is somewhat irrelevant due to his/her evacuation to Canada; thus abandoning Old Glory to the libberall hordes.


May I refer you to the following fine wise words:

"For my part, I 'd like the 16th Amendment to be repealed ending income taxation, in favor of financing all government operations by sales taxes and importation tarriffs."


And doing so would restore the Constitution to the meaning given it by the founding fathers, who were patriots first and politicos….last!



David with his usual straight forward honesty rote, "I wud not VISIT, but u WUD have my sympathy and my moral support."


Thanks; even if your views are to the left of mine, I will remember those words as we continue the battle.

BTW I should mention I had to ban Setanta from this thread, because she was treating it as a joke!




O Canada!
Our home and native land!
True patriot love in all thy sons command.

With glowing hearts we see thee rise,
The True North strong and free!

From far and wide,
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.

God keep our land glorious and free!
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.

O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.