Is U.S. income tax invalid?

Richard Saunders wrote:

An excise tax doesnt have have to be laid on a privileged activity?

It depends on your definition of "privileged" I guess. This is from the IRS

Quote:

Excise taxes are taxes paid when purchases are made on a specific good, such as gasoline. Excise taxes are often included in the price of the product. There are also excise taxes on activities, such as on wagering or on highway usage by trucks. Excise Tax has several general excise tax programs. One of the major components of the excise program is motor fuel.

http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/article/0,,id=99517,00.html

Wikipedia defines it this way

Quote:

Constitutional law

In the U.S. constitutional law sense, an excise is essentially an event tax (as opposed to a state of being tax).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excise_tax

So selling your labor is an event and is taxed as an excise tax. Not selling your labor is a state of being and isn't taxed. You are not taxed for your potential labor.

yeah I know wiki has that.. I think theyre the only one that mentions the 'event tax'...

devils advocate parados.. arent excise taxes supposed to be uniform throughout the 50 states?

Richard Saunders wrote:

yeah I know wiki has that.. I think theyre the only one that mentions the 'event tax'...

IRS lists taxable events. The event where the tax applies.
http://www.irs.gov/publications/p510/

Quote:

devils advocate parados.. arent excise taxes supposed to be uniform throughout the 50 states?

Yes, and they are. The Fed gas tax is the same per gallon in every state. The Fed income tax is the same rate per income bracket in every state. Tell us which excise tax you think isn't uniform.

parados wrote:

Richard Saunders wrote:

yeah I know wiki has that.. I think theyre the only one that mentions the 'event tax'...

IRS lists taxable events. The event where the tax applies.
http://www.irs.gov/publications/p510/

Quote:

devils advocate parados.. arent excise taxes supposed to be uniform throughout the 50 states?

Yes, and they are. The Fed gas tax is the same per gallon in every state. The Fed income tax is the same rate per income bracket in every state. Tell us which excise tax you think isn't uniform.

I see plenty of taxable events but none that apply to income taxes.

Richard Saunders wrote:

parados wrote:

Richard Saunders wrote:

yeah I know wiki has that.. I think theyre the only one that mentions the 'event tax'...

IRS lists taxable events. The event where the tax applies.
http://www.irs.gov/publications/p510/

Quote:

devils advocate parados.. arent excise taxes supposed to be uniform throughout the 50 states?

Yes, and they are. The Fed gas tax is the same per gallon in every state. The Fed income tax is the same rate per income bracket in every state. Tell us which excise tax you think isn't uniform.

I see plenty of taxable events but none that apply to income taxes.

That would be because that publication doesn't deal with income taxes. You stated wiki was the ONLY place that talks about events being taxed. I showed you an instance where the IRS lists taxable events.

When your statements prove false, you change the subject.

I should have clarified. Wiki was the only place Ive read about talking about income as a taxable event.

Regardless, I find it hard for someone to claim something is an 'excise' when I cannot avoid it. If a tax is laid on my labor; it is a tax laid on my property. Its a direct tax. At least it sure seems to me...

Richard Saunders wrote:

I should have clarified. Wiki was the only place Ive read about talking about income as a taxable event.

a quick google for income and taxable event showed me several instances including court rulings

Investment taxable events

Court Case


This from the Michigan Law review (Cut and paste the entire line)
http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0026-2234(196301)61%3A3%3C612%3ATFITDP%3E2.0.CO%3B2-C

Quote:

Regardless, I find it hard for someone to claim something is an 'excise' when I cannot avoid it. If a tax is laid on my labor; it is a tax laid on my property. Its a direct tax. At least it sure seems to me...

What it seems to you has little to do with the reality of court rulings and the founder's writings or the IRS brochures. Just because you don't understand something doesn't make it not true. You can avoid the tax on income. Don't have an income. It would make it hard to live but you would avoid the tax.

Thats not too realistic. You cant live if you dont have money coming in somehow. Its an inalienable right.

New breed of tax protester
In the past, MacNab said, people withheld their tax payments as an act of civil disobedience, for example against the Vietnam War. They knew and accepted jail or fines as the consequences of their behavior.

By contrast, the new protesters are in it for themselves, she wrote in testimony submitted earlier this year to the Senate Finance Committee. "They want the benefits of withholding funds from government (personal enrichment, punishing government programs they don't like) without any of the negative consequences. They are not practicing civil disobedience; they are following a cult-like belief system made up of absurd pseudo-legal theories and wild-eyed conspiracy tales."

In recent years, the tax agency has successfully prosecuted people who have promoted schemes to escape taxes or who have boasted publicly of their ability to avoid making income-tax payments, including Irwin Schiff, Lynne Meredith, Larken Rose and Richard Simkanin. All are in jail. The IRS is continuing to pursue criminal investigations of others.

Excise tax rates are not the same in every state.

http://www.taxadmin.org/fta/rate/motor_fl.html

I say you can't read.

"STATE TAX" is written right there at the head of your list.

State taxes don't have to be uniform under the constitution. The Federal gas tax is uniform which is what I said.

I dont think these discussions will ever amount to either side convincing the other.

For just as much as Parados believes the income tax and federal reserve are legal, and done for the good of the country, I believe just as strongly in the opposite viewpoint that they are not legal and harm the country.

Tryagain is posting diatribes from tax protestor sites but not attributing them to the authors. Most of the words aren't his and I don't think he could have a discussion without plagerism.

"I dont think these discussions will ever amount to either side convincing the other."

It is clear all the others have either seen the light or given up, only Parados clings to the IRS banner, and even he cannot bring himself to admit he has never been given the opportunity to vote for personal taxes, or any taxes for that matter…

The other 2.3 million words are devoted to cunningly suggesting that the code imposes a tax on all receipts of all Americans, while never actually saying that anywhere, (since, of course, it can't).

TITLE 26 > Subtitle A > CHAPTER 1 > Subchapter A > PART I > § 1
§ 1. Tax imposed


(a) Married individuals filing joint returns and surviving spouses
There is hereby imposed imposed on the taxable income of every head of a household (as defined in section 2 (b)) a tax determined in accordance with the following table:

...

(c) Unmarried individuals (other than surviving spouses and heads of households)
There is hereby imposed on the taxable income of every individual (other than a surviving spouse as defined in section 2 (a) or the head of a household as defined in section 2 (b)) who is not a married individual (as defined in section 7703) a tax determined in accordance with the following table:
...
(d) Married individuals filing separate returns
There is hereby imposed on the taxable income of every married individual (as defined in section 7703) who does not make a single return jointly with his spouse under section 6013, a tax determined in accordance with the following table:

The other 2.3 million words are devoted to cunningly suggesting that the code imposes a tax on all receipts of all Americans, while never actually saying that anywhere, (since, of course, it can't).