Is U.S. income tax invalid?

I think you will find you can and with the blessing of thr IRS.


I know that many will find the material which follows highly disagreeable. It is never easy or pleasant to shed a familiar (and often, in this case, comforting) perspective or belief. But I trust that the same integrity by virtue of which anyone challenges the "income" tax scheme in the first place will find itself exercised here as well.



Practical interest should help, also. Even the most sincerely held and well-intentioned misunderstanding has the serious potential to ruin the lives of those misled by it.


Furthermore, confusion and lies are the servants-- in many ways the chief characteristics-- of the real "income" tax scheme. While misunderstandings and misinformation persist, they will continue to be disseminated-- most often and most successfully to those who are new to the subject. Anyone whose first introduction to the notion that the "income" tax scheme can and should be challenged is by way of a misunderstanding will ultimately be lost to the cause-- once burned and twice warned.


Supplementing the sophomoric socialism and good-government nonsense is a constant numbing chant from the upper ranks of the net-tax-beneficiary class asserting both a legal propriety for the tax, and its inescapability; a mantra of "You can't fight City Hall!" ceaselessly issuing from… City Hall and its professional courtiers and sycophants. It is important to realize that one of the largest segments of this gang is that of tax attorneys and accountants, whose very comfortable annual revenues are a direct consequence of the ?'income' tax.

Consider the declaration by Jerry Padway, representing the American Institute of Certified Public Accountants reported March 8th 2002 on National Public Radio that the IRS should conduct more audits. He alleged that this is necessary in order to support Americans' "faith in the system". Personally, I can't see why such faith has any particular interest for members of the AICPA. It is no more their natural concern than is your attitude toward the administration of the municipal water system to the plumber you hire to fix the pipes. (More audits DO result in more business for CPA's, though; and of course, if you understand the truth about the income tax, the interest of the profession in nurturing a faith-based acceptance of the status-quo is manifest).



The ranks of such net-tax-beneficiaries are large and growing. The least significant of them are the explicit recipients of public largesse in the form of welfare payments or other types of aid. (In fact, there is every good reason to believe this specific class of citizens is deliberately maintained in its abject circumstances in order to support the "morality" component of the mythology associated with the tax system). Of far greater significance are the "professionals" wielding-- and feeding off-- the incomprehensible and arbitrary character of the tax code. Also, of course, there are the government employees who are directly paid with tax dollars. All of these people lend their voices to the hypnotic and distracting chanting, and all of them are reliable votes in support of the institutional meat-grinder by which they feed.

This brings us to another multi-faceted vein of mythology being worked to keep the cattle quiet: that if we really were being victimized by a fraudulent system for the benefit of others, we would be stripped to our underwear and left penniless-- lucky to escape with our lives. Since this is not so, what is done must be legitimate, however incomprehensible or counter-intuitive it may be. This clever, sub-textual argument is reliant upon a widespread ignorance of history (providing one of many self-interested reasons government schools de-emphasize history so purposefully) and is nurtured by an ever-more-juvenile news and entertainment industry.

The fact is, the conquest and subjugation of people from within a democratic framework by parasites doesn't work the same as an assault by overt predators. Parasites do not kill their hosts, they just make an easy living off them. Read this paragraph from a U.S. Postal Service workers website, Postalvoice.com:

By the time our average federal employee reaches 30 years of service in 2012, he will be 59 years old, his annual salary will be $90,721 and his high three average salary will be $82,880. He will be entitled to $46,620 annual retirement annuity without the survivor benefit. If he elects a full survivor benefit, then his annual annuity will be $42,228 (annual cost of the survivor benefit is $4,392) and his survivor would receive $25,641 annually if he died in 2012.

At retirement, he takes a loss of more than 50% on annual income

(The emphasis in the above complaint (yes, it's a complaint) is in the original).



These statistics-- which are for the year 2000, by the way-- refer to the circumstances of your letter carrier and the IRS agent who audits your tax return, among others. Several million others.

On the other hand, the 2000 median income for all ages in the United States overall, according to the U.S. Census Bureau's Sept., 2001 report "Money Income In The United States: 2000" was $42,148, less than the grumbled-at retirement pay of your letter-carrier. Think about that. The people who extract your earnings from you-- for the common good, of course-- pay themselves twice as much of that money as you start out with. I guess that's why such people claim with a straight face that taxes aren't anything to make a fuss about-- even after the bite they're still living pretty large.

Let's face it. Someone getting paid $90,000 in tax money extracted by force or fraud for a level of effort and talent that would get $42,000 in the free market is no less a villain because they don't, or can't, escalate their predations to even higher levels. Someone making an easy living cadging high fees from anxious, traumatized, or self-preservation-minded victims of an illegal and incomprehensible tax fraud is no less a villain for charging no more for such predations than is asked for work of real value. Someone living at the expense of their neighbor is no less a villain for letting a co-conspirator bureaucracy do the stealing.

Eventually its all going to come out in the wash. The whole income tax-financing-the-federal reserve is simply a big pyramid scheme which cannot be sustained forever and which will implode upon itself.

Having nothing but a fiat currency guarantees this eventuality.

Just my opinion.

No, those stats are for the year 2012. Read the sentence.




Now the idiot is comparing 2000 salaries to 2012 salaries. Only a complete moron would do such a thing or accept someone else doing that. Lets run some simple math and see what a $42,148 salary would be in 2012 at 3% inflation. At 3% inflation the average salary in the US would be $61,881. Well over the retirement salary for a postal worker. Keep in mind the postal worker is not recieving any Social Security payments. At 2% inflation the average salary in 2012 would be $54,510. Still putting the average salary well over the retirement salary.

Lets face it. Someone that compares 2000 figures to 2012 figures to try to demonize someone is a villian of the highest order.

But of course the arugment about average salary ignores the time in the workforce and the high earning power of someone in their 50s. Just for comparison lets find the salaries of 50-59 year olds.
Here is the average salary in 2006 of those with more than 20 years experience
http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Years_Experience=20_years_or_more/Salary

Again, if we adjust for inflation, it appears that the 30 year veteran of the postal service is making about the same as a 20 year construction worker. Hardly some fantastic amount of money.

Maybe you need to read more carefully Tryagain. Look at what the person is really saying and how they are spinning the numbers rather than believing without examining it all.


If this was an example of the integrity of those that challenge the income tax, the only thing it says to me is how intellectually and morally bankrupt they are.

It appears you are right about the business use of home. They have changed the standards again after they tightened them up a few years ago.


http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p587.pdf

Welcome back Richard, "The whole income tax-financing-the-federal reserve is simply a big pyramid scheme which cannot be sustained forever and which will implode upon itself."

Never a truer statement made.



Eagle eyed Parados wrote, " Maybe you need to read more carefully Tryagain. Look at what the person is really saying…"

Wise words indeed.


Then on this Easter Monday, Parados saw the light:

"It appears you are right about the business use of home."


OMG I hope you will understand that I am writing this from Mercy Hospital. Please, in future preface any such agreements with a HEALTH WARNING so the necessary precautions may be taken.

In an earlier part of our history, the institutional villains of the time deployed the mythology of "the divine right of kings" (along with state-sponsored terrorism against resistors) to keep their victims passive or confused and disorganized. Such myths supplemented and gradually replaced the massive violence of the original conquest by arms, initiated for the same object: the collection from the subject population of tribute (the original word for "taxes").

This transformational process was a consequence of the conquerors and the subject population's blending together, with the outright master-slave relationship being softened somewhat by the development of traditions, ritual, etc. Now we have the situation in reverse, in which a tribute-claiming class is forming and detaching itself from the larger population, with barely a peep from citizens who wouldn't hesitate to throw a fit if the grocer tried to overcharge them by a nickel.

It is commonly understood that you get what you pay for. As a little clear, hard thinking and the effort of standing up on our hind legs seems to be more of a price than we're willing to spend to preserve (or reclaim) our freedom, we're ending up with less and less of it every day. What we're getting lots of is the government that we deserve, but as we're spending a fortune for it, I guess that's as it should be.

So start teaching your children how to curtsey and bow; in due course, they'll need such skills. As for you, when you hand the clerk your tax return at the post office, show some respect. After all, he's one of the people you work for.

Our progress into subservience and disgrace is not inevitable. It has been said that, "All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing", and the reverse is also true: All that is necessary for evil to be defeated is for good men to do something. Stop passively acquiescing in this assault and raise your voice. Stop "voluntarily complying". Eagerly accept jury assignments and always vote in favor of freedom, there and on election day.

Go to court. Challenges to the status quo will change the perspective of judges, who (often being just as misled or lazy as the next person in this regard) like to dodge legal challenges to the 'income' tax by arguing that the pervasive legal confusion which the dedicated disinformation campaign has produced in many people's minds over four generations has rendered the subject a political issue rather than a judicial one. A steady stream of challenges will either stimulate some self-education and renewed respect for the rule of law on the part of the judiciary, or force the legislature to address the issue.

Coming up in the next enthralling episode of, ?'Did you vote to pay taxes?'; we return to 1776.

Tryagain do you ever talk normal? :wink:

I can't understand you most of the time when you talk about taxes.
I think you help the IRS by writing forms most people can't understand.

Am I happy to pay taxes to the government? I rather have the money myself but, I believe in paying taxes. I will pay taxes any day as long as the government keeps up with technology.

Did I hear the word AUDIT? Have you ever been to one? Can you imagine a taxpayer's face when they are being audited by the IRS and at the end of it they actually get money back
Does that ever happen? Sure it does. Or, how about after the audit and everything looked good so the tax return stands as is? Wow that is a load off the taxpayers shoulder.

I think it is great that the IRS is auditing more. I pay my share so I feel others should too.

When I look into the sky and I see the F-117 Stealth Fighter fly by, I get the biggest smile on my face and think there is an example of my tax dollars hard at work. That is quite a sight to see too.

Just out of curiosity I want to give you a challenge. Of course you don't have to accept. Is it at all possible for you to tell us all in one sentence with words that are normal when does the AMT (Alternative Minimum Tax) apply? Just saying yes doesn't count either. You would actually have to write the sentence. The sentence cannot take 1/2 page either. When people have asked me I tell them in 5 words. They may not like it but it is the best I have been able to do. I am just curious to see someone else's answer.
So actually, anyone please feel free to try. I would like to see a better answer than the one I give.

FYI: You're income tax dollars didnt pay for that Stealth Fighter... In fact the personal income tax doesnt pay for any services for the country.

Where does my tax dollars go then?

Basically it goes to pay interest on the debt. Most people dont realize that this country doesnt issue its own currency but instead actually purchases it from a private company.. If we got rid of that process and had the country return to issuing its own currency we could also get rid of the personal income tax and nothing would be affected.

What private company? I have been to Washington D.C. and I have seen them make our money.

They print it, but they do not actually issue it. The private company is called 'Federal Reserve System'

TO further explain the process. The BEP prints up the bills and is paid a fee of about 3 cents per bill by the federal reserve.. So lets take a $100 Bill.. They are paid 3 cents to make it up. The Federal Reserve then turns around and sells that bill to the govt for $100 Face amount. That note is then introduced into the economy. This is the real reason we have all this debt going on with the federal govt.

You still have the Federal Reserve Banks which the private banks must be a member of. The money is still in the U.S. I think that is one of the ways they control interest rates. It is still tax dollars IMO. It is just a matter of where it is sitting and how the money gets moved around.


When I say I think that is how they control interest rates. I mean I think.
I really am not sure. I never researched it.

Somehow Richard has this delusion that the Federal government could buy printing presses for zero dollars and get people to run them for zero dollars.

Even if the Federal government did the printing Richard it would cost at least 3 cents per bill and perhaps more.

You should really spend some time to look at the budget Richard. All our money does not go for debt. If we pay $100 for an item and then give it to someone else for something valued at $100, how much is the item we have worth?

http://beginnersinvest.about.com/od/banking/a/aa062405.htm

Thank you parados.

Hey Richard, my tax dollars are up in our sky paying for that stealth fighter. I wish everyone had the opportunity to actually be outside and have that fly over head. It is an amazing aircraft. I have seen it twice in the air. It really makes me feel good when I know that is where some of my tax dollars go.

I saw something else through that link that looks interesting so when I have time I want to read up on it.

I bet you're one of those people who believe GDP and GNP are the same thing too and the govt just decided to use GDP now because its 'better' though what they've really done is hide the fact that foreginers are buying up more of America by changing the way they measure a particular set of numbers.

Again, your tax dollars didnt pay for it. Corporate income tax did.

You're negating the fact that the govt doesnt have to 'pay $100' if it issued its own money. It would be much better for the govt to pay 3 cents and issue the $100 on its own. Why is this so unbelievable for certain people to understand is beyond me.