Again, I could refute all your assertions made. But whats the point?
My uncle coined a phrase. It was "Experience keeps a dear school, but fools will learn in no other."
Quote:I think the point is you will believe what you want to believe and don't want to examine your beliefs in light of reality.Again, I could refute all your assertions made. But whats the point?
My uncle coined a phrase. It was "Experience keeps a dear school, but fools will learn in no other."
If you really wanted to learn, I would be happy to report your failure to pay income tax to the IRS. I am sure you will find the experience quite enlightening.
I am well aware that my comments can describe me as well as you. You don't seem to be aware that your comments work both ways. :wink:
I don't know whether you pay income taxes or not. I do know that if you really acted on what your professed beliefs are then you wouldn't be paying them. If you are paying them, then perhaps you don't really believe what you profess here. Personally, I don't care which it is. Why try to convince others if you aren't willing to stand up and be counted yourself? Experience is a dear school but some people don't want to attend that school for fear of what they will learn.
Parados rather wittily wrote, "Experience is a dear school but some people don't want to attend that school for fear of what they will learn." Very true.
"Why try to convince others if you aren't willing to stand up and be counted yourself?"
Good point, and I do just that; they can tax my property and investments, companies and profit, but they will not get a cent of my earnings. And they never have!
Politicians are wonderful people as long as they stay away from things they don't understand, such as working for a living.
There are a variety of theories about the "income" tax scheme, some wildly popular and some more obscure, but all reflecting an incomplete understanding of the law. Like the six blind men describing the elephant, each view discussed here is grounded in a varyingly accurate perception of some facts related to the scheme, but never the whole picture. Indeed, it is a characteristic of each such theory that some part of the overall body of the law or its administration must be explained away in order to provide a superficial plausibility to the theory.
In some cases sections of the law are declared to be simply inoperative window-dressing; in others, sections which contradict the theory are declared to have a REAL meaning which is contrary to the clear language with which they are set forth; in still others, the vast difference between the theory's explanations or conclusions and the written language of the law is argued to be due to a vast conspiracy comprising every judge, prosecutor, tax professional, defense attorney, etc., or a hidden web of deeper law in which we are all ensnared, and which modifies the meaning of the law which we are able to perceive.
In every case, although each theorist marshals selected and carefully construed language from the millions of words of code, statutes, and/or regulations in the fabrication of his or her view, none can offer the least evidence of any actual implementation of these theories; at the same time, the fully visible means by which the real "income" tax scheme actually IS implemented is (perforce) studiously ignored.
Another truism must be to quote Richard, "Trying to fight the IRS head on is much akin to showing up at a gunfight with a knife." I like that a lot.
Do we all at least agree that any personal income tax extorted before the 16th amendment was illegal? And by that I mean against the constitution, and not a sick bird?
Do we all at least agree that any personal income tax extorted before the 16th amendment was illegal? And by that I mean against the constitution, and not a sick bird?
Our conclusions are, that direct taxes, within the meaning of the Constitution, are only capitation taxes, as expressed in that instrument, and taxes on real estate; and that the tax of which the plaintiff in error complains is within the category of an excise or duty.
Parados, a knight in shining armour, upholder of liberty, democracy and the constitution wrote, "The exact same process was used for every amendment, the process spelled out in the constitution. To say the public wasn't consulted is complete bunk. If you don't like it then you are free to repeal the amendment. All it takes is for you to get enough of the public to agree with you."
"The two of you can agree to ignore facts. I post them for others to see the error in your statements."
I am sure no matter how distasteful it may be, you will agree that under a democracy, the majority win the vote. Therefore, unless you can find numerical support, you are bound by the result.
The Court concluded that only taxes on real estate and capitation taxes were direct taxes.
Although it rendered a seemingly contrary decision in Pollock v. Farmers' Loan and Trust (1895).
In Springer v United States (1881)the Supreme Court rejected this economic definition of a direct tax in favor of the judicial-historical definition, and quoting at length from Hylton v. United States, held the income tax to be an excise: "Our conclusions are, that direct taxes, within the meaning of the Constitution, are only capitation taxes as expressed in that instrument, and taxes on real estate; and that the tax of which the plaintiff in error complains is within the category of an excise or a duty." Congress repealed the act five years later.
More than 20 years passed before Congress again enacted an income tax law, the legality of which was decided in the present case. In 1894, fulfilling promises made in a campaign of 1892, a Democratic Congress passed a law that levied an income tax graduated to the extent that it exempted incomes under $4000 and taxed those above at 2 percent. Subject to the tax were incomes from (1) real estate, (2) stocks, bonds, and other securities, (3) state and municipal bonds, and (4) wages, salaries, and professional earnings. Adopted and defended as a measure to relieve the victims of the panic of 1893 and to shift most of the tax burden to the wealthy, the act was bitterly denounced as socialistic; and capital and industry girded its loins for a last-ditch fight in the Supreme Court.
Ignoring a well-established principle that taxes can be contested only after they have been paid, the Supreme Court agreed to hear on appeal a suit in which a stockholder sought to enjoin a bank from paying the new tax. The best legal talent of the country was brought into the case, and the Court heard argument twice, one justice being ill during the first argument. In a five-to-four decision, one unidentified justice having switched over on the second argument, the Court held the income tax law invalid.
The provision taxing income derived from wages, salaries, and professional earnings was declared valid as an excise, but under the rule governing the partial unconstitutionality of statutes, the entire act was held void.
How do you like them apples?
"Those who say it cannot be done should not interfere with those of us who are doing it" - S. Hickman
" do you have a link for that?"
"The material you requested is included in JSTOR, an online journal archive made available to researchers through participating libraries and institutions. This journal is licensed to JSTOR by The Harvard Law Review Association."
I think it was part of:
State Constitutional Law in 1935-36
J. A. C. Grant
The American Political Science Review, Vol. 30, No. 4 (Aug., 1936), pp. 692-712
doi:10.2307/1947946
"There is a kernel of truth in Chief Justice Hughes' remark that, "We are under a Constitution, but the Constitution is what the judges say it is."
"I would agree with that. It is a fair analysis."
Richard, I fear you may have condemned yourself to a visit by the Spanish Inquisition! There may yet be time for you to save yourself and recant.
Do we all at least agree that any personal income tax extorted before the 16th amendment was illegal?
'E's not pinin'! 'E's passed on! This parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! 'E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker! 'E's a stiff! Bereft of life, 'e
rests in peace! If you hadn't nailed 'im to the perch 'e'd be pushing up the daisies! 'Is metabolic processes are now 'istory! 'E's off the twig! 'E's kicked the bucket, 'e's shuffled off 'is mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisibile!! THIS IS AN EX-PARROT!!
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