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Iraq Study Group Report - Summary Please?

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
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Reply Wed 13 Dec, 2006 09:49 pm
My support for Kucinich continues to grow stronger for his bid in 2008.
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Monte Cargo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Dec, 2006 12:14 am
With Saudi Arabia promising to fund the Sunni insurgency in Iraq, there will be more bloodshed. Because Iran has already had its Shiite horse in the race in Iraq, this represents a stepping up and escalation of conflict.

This is just one of the many considerations the United States needs to ponder before taking any action.
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Monte Cargo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Dec, 2006 12:18 am
InfraBlue wrote:
Monte Cargo wrote:
squinney wrote:
Here's an interesting perspective that helps explain why I feel that after the report was published America stopped being as angry about the war.

And here's an article that exemplifies just how useful it will be to "talk" with Iran:

Ahmadinejad: Israel will be 'wiped out'
Quote:
"The Zionist regime will be wiped out soon the same way the Soviet Union was, and humanity will achieve freedom," Ahmadinejad said at Tuesday's meeting with the conference participants in his offices, according to Iran's official news agency, IRNA.


Is "the Zionist regime" synonymous with "Israel?"

What other nation would Ahmadinejad be talking about?

How many ways does Ahmadinejad need to spell his intentions out before we "get it"?

Ahmadinejad states that Israel is a "fictitious state"
Ahmadinejad states that Isreal will soon cease to exit.
Ahmadinejad has been conducting a "Holocaust never happened" meeting
The IAE has stated that it can not determine if Iranian development of nuclear energy is for peaceful or military purposes.
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Monte Cargo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Dec, 2006 12:23 am
cicerone imposter wrote:
The American People spoke at the last election to tell our government that Iraq has been mismanaged, and they want change. If the democrats vote for that extra 100 billion to extend the war to "stay the course," those same democrats will be out at the next election cycle.

It's not quite that simple. Suppose the dems vote to cut funding and force immediate withdrawal of the troops and then all hell breaks loose, the Arabs get involved and Iran gains control of the Persian Gulf with six more hotheaded nations besides Iran getting the bomb?

How long before these nations converge to fight "The Great Satan"?

There's much more at stake than mere political posturing. Sunnis make up Al Queida and with fortification from the Saudis, it is highly likely Osama Bin Laden would lead, which is not too great considering that Saudi Arabia and other Arab nations have announced they too would like the bomb.
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dyslexia
 
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Reply Thu 14 Dec, 2006 07:36 am
regardless of one's political/philosophical leanings/experiences/attitudes facts is facts. Until and unless one discerns the facts of a situation all opinions are without merit.
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au1929
 
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Reply Thu 14 Dec, 2006 08:35 am
Kucinich in my opinion continues to be a lot of hot air. There is no way that congress could or should cut off funds for Iraq and Afghanistan while our troops are still there. You may not like or feel the conflict is justified. However to put our troops in danger through lack of funds and supplies is criminal. The American people, at least the vast majority would not stand for it.
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dyslexia
 
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Reply Thu 14 Dec, 2006 08:45 am
au1929 wrote:
Kucinich in my opinion continues to be a lot of hot air. There is no way that congress could or should cut off funds for Iraq and Afghanistan while our troops are still there. You may not like or feel the conflict is justified. However to put our troops in danger through lack of funds and supplies is criminal. The American people, at least the vast majority would not stand for it.

How unusual that we disagree, Mark Twain once observed, "It were not best that we should all think alike; it is difference of opinion that makes horse-races." For that matter, it is difference of opinion that makes companies. After all, business is a contact sport, with conflict a given. The problem isn't with disagreements, but with how they're resolved.
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Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Dec, 2006 09:34 am
The ISG goes pretty far. It even directs Israel to give up sole control of Jerusalem and go back to the '67 borders. The Group loses credibility when it begins to direct the affairs of the rest of the world.
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InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Dec, 2006 11:30 am
Monte Cargo wrote:
InfraBlue wrote:


Is "the Zionist regime" synonymous with "Israel?"

What other nation would Ahmadinejad be talking about?

How many ways does Ahmadinejad need to spell his intentions out before we "get it"?

Ahmadinejad states that Israel is a "fictitious state"
Ahmadinejad states that Isreal will soon cease to exit.
Ahmadinejad has been conducting a "Holocaust never happened" meeting
The IAE has stated that it can not determine if Iranian development of nuclear energy is for peaceful or military purposes.

I don't know what the Iranian leadership hopes to accomplish through thier holocaust convention. People ranging from holocaust denyers, and minimizers to Orthodox Jews like Rabbis Moishe Ayre Friedman, and Aharon Cohen, and the Neturei Karta (Guardians of the City) who certainly don't deny the holocaust, but oppose the creation of the state of Israel on religious grounds attended the convention.

There is some confusion as the result of the conflation of words expressed by the Iranian president. He's quoted as saying that "the Zionist regime will be wiped out soon the same way the Soviet Union was," and the media headlines say "Ahmadinjad: Israel will be 'wiped out.'"

A regime is not a state, it is the the form of government of a state, the government in power. This conflation of terms, and the resulting confusion helps to stoke the paranoia that's behind the rationalization for the extistance of a chauvanistic and bigoted ethnocentric state.

The Iranian leadership is as extremist as the far right Zionists in that they propose the transfer of Ashkenazi Jews back to Europe after the destruction of the Zionist regime much like the rightist Zionists propose the transfer of the Palestinians to the Arab countries. In its place it would install a Muslim theocratic regime.

This isn't very much different from the expressed desires of some of Israel's leadership like its very deputy prime-minister, Avigdor Lieberman, who proposes the segregation of Israel, and the appliction of "loyalty tests" to its Arab citizens whereby they would confirm the existance of their nation as the Jewish state.

One difference between ethnocentirsts like Ahmadinjad and Lieberman is that the former is vilified thorughout the Western world. The latter is invited to meet US officials like its Secretary of State, Condoleza Rice.

This brings up a question, however. Why should an ethnocentric regime (i.e. government in power)--one that for its very existence necessarily discriminates and oppresses a people of a different ethnicity--be allowed to exist?
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Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Dec, 2006 02:11 pm
It is telling that the keynote speaker at the antisemitic conference was David Duke, former head of the KKK. Thus, the conference was not about fact-finding and free speech, but was a way of attacking Israel and Jews.

I wonder if our own BlueFlame and CI were in attendance.
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au1929
 
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Reply Thu 14 Dec, 2006 03:56 pm
Advocate wrote:
It is telling that the keynote speaker at the antisemitic conference was David Duke, former head of the KKK. Thus, the conference was not about fact-finding and free speech, but was a way of attacking Israel and Jews.

I wonder if our own BlueFlame and CI were in attendance.


You can be sure that BlueFlame was there in spirit.He is an admirer of the president of Iran.
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Advocate
 
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Reply Thu 14 Dec, 2006 04:05 pm
He is definitely an admirer of Hezbollah and Hamas.
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cicerone imposter
 
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Reply Thu 14 Dec, 2006 04:08 pm
Some people seem so desparate as a need for ad hominems and straw man statements.
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blueflame1
 
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Reply Thu 14 Dec, 2006 05:44 pm
Some of my fave Rabbis were there. Setting the record straight. They know the holocaust happened but agree with what Ahmadinejad told Bushie in his letter to the Presidunce, basically let's assume the holocaust happened. What right did that give anyone to drive and murder Palestinians out of their homes and land? Palestinians were friends with their Jewish neighbors and have paid for a holocaust perpertrated by Europeans by being slaughtered themselves. I believe one day there will be a 2 state solution using borders close to the 1967 borders. In order for that to happen Palestinians will be ceding about 75% of what was theirs to Israel despite the fact that Israel took it by murder and terrorism. A great sacrifice. They'll never concede that Israel had that right. No one has a right to forcebly take another's home through murder and treachery. As Rabbi Weiss says it aint Jewish. No more than Bushie's invasion of Iraq was Christian.
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blueflame1
 
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Reply Thu 14 Dec, 2006 05:50 pm
http://media3.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/photo/2006/12/12/PH2006121200506.jpg
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Advocate
 
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Reply Fri 15 Dec, 2006 11:12 am
blueflame1 wrote:
http://media3.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/photo/2006/12/12/PH2006121200506.jpg


Blue, which one in that picture is you?
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blueflame1
 
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Reply Fri 15 Dec, 2006 11:22 am
Advocate, when it comes to holocaust denial Ahmadinejad has nothing on you. You are the ultimate holocaust denier. Your defense of Israel's atrocities against Palestinians proves that. It's mighty anti-semitic of you also.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Dec, 2006 11:52 am
bleuflame, Good point! Some people deny the atrocities against Pals by the Jews, and cry "antisemite" for anybody brave enough to challenge them.
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Dec, 2006 12:14 pm
blueflame1 wrote:
Advocate, when it comes to holocaust denial Ahmadinejad has nothing on you. You are the ultimate holocaust denier. Your defense of Israel's atrocities against Palestinians proves that. It's mighty anti-semitic of you also.


That's doesn't even try to make any sense.
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blueflame1
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Dec, 2006 12:25 pm
McGentrix, of course deniers of the holocaust Israel is carrying out against Palestinians would deny they are deniers. No holocaust happening right?
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