1
   

Good or Bad, My Health is My Business?

 
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Dec, 2006 01:35 pm
Laughing Bill.

I agree, Shapeles, and you stated it well.
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Dartagnan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Dec, 2006 01:45 pm
While I agree that the NYC authorities are overstepping re trans fats, I stop short of condemning the "nanny state" for all public-health rules.

To wit: laws requiring motorcycle helmets. Some say, "It's my own business if I ride without a helmet." Except, of course, if you crash. Then you'll be hauled off to a trauma center for some highly costly care, quite likely on the public dime.

Then the issue concerns all of us.
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OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Dec, 2006 01:46 pm
Chai Tea wrote:
again, regardless of your answer to me before bill, I see it as creating more choices, not less.

you see it as taking away someones rights, I see it as giving people more rights.
Laughing That is flat out idiotic. You can't create more choice by eliminating choices.
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dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Dec, 2006 01:49 pm
OCCOM BILL wrote:
Chai Tea wrote:
again, regardless of your answer to me before bill, I see it as creating more choices, not less.

you see it as taking away someones rights, I see it as giving people more rights.
Laughing That is flat out idiotic. You can't create more choice by eliminating choices.

Yes, of course, that would be absolutely republican.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Dec, 2006 01:54 pm
I agree with OBill; they're going too far to protect me from me.
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Slappy Doo Hoo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Dec, 2006 01:54 pm
Does taking trans-fat out of foods make a difference in taste? I thought McDonalds took it out of their fries a while ago, didn't they? If there's not a big difference in taste, I'm all for it. I don't like sitting next to fatties on airplanes.
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ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Dec, 2006 01:56 pm
This transfats stuff seems little and late to me - I've avoided them for years now, possibly even decades. There are whole parts of grocery stores I skip, the cookie aisle, for example.

Re transfats, I'm more for education than legislation. Demand for food without transfats will, theoretically, increase supply.

On raw milk, here's an fascinating article - to me - in the LA Times magazine section.

If you are interested, check the link soon, as the article is several days old and may soon go into the have-to-pay-to-read-it archives.
LINK - Will this cow make you sick?
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Dec, 2006 01:58 pm
Dartagnan wrote:
While I agree that the NYC authorities are overstepping re trans fats, I stop short of condemning the "nanny state" for all public-health rules.

To wit: laws requiring motorcycle helmets. Some say, "It's my own business if I ride without a helmet." Except, of course, if you crash. Then you'll be hauled off to a trauma center for some highly costly care, quite likely on the public dime.

Then the issue concerns all of us.
Public Dime argument is bankrupt unless you are going to address every issue of equal consequence from the same perspective. Which, would include everything that makes you fat. According to the CDC, only smoking kills more people than being fat. 1 in 5 Americans isn't just fat, they're obese. Who's really ready to have the government put us on a mandatory diet?

Ps. It only took Wisconsinites 3 years to permanently remove the helmet laws when the Feds pushed us into them. :wink:
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Dartagnan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Dec, 2006 02:07 pm
OCCOM BILL wrote:
Public Dime argument is bankrupt unless you are going to address every issue of equal consequence from the same perspective.


Oh? Does the same logic apply to laws against drunken driving?
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ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Dec, 2006 02:07 pm
OCCOM BILL wrote:
You can't create more choice by eliminating choices.


Love it.

I just mentioned this at work - just about everyone got into talking about something that's banned in the U.S. that we can get here.

Number 1 on most lists - Kinder Eggs.

Quote:
Kinder Eggs containing toys are not suitable for children under the age of three due to the small parts which may be ingested or inhaled. They are sold all over the world, however they are banned in the United States where the Food and Drug Administration has deemed the encapsulated toy to be a choking hazard. Kinder Egg-like confections are available, but only in a form filled with small candies and/or stickers. There are some stores in the United States that sell genuine Kinder Eggs, often in conjunction with other imported British or other European sweets, although their importation is technically illegal due to the FDA ban.[1]

wiki
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2PacksAday
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Dec, 2006 02:08 pm
I'm gonna go smoke a few twinkies, and think this all thru before I commit to an opinion.
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ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Dec, 2006 02:23 pm
and then there's the foie gras ban ...

anyone remember

Quote:
In 1992, the New Jersey Health Department banned restaurants from serving raw and undercooked eggs. No more; soft-boiled eggs, poached eggs, eggs over-easy, eggs sunny-side-up, raw eggs, hollandaise sauce, steak tartare, etc. Eventually sanity took over and the ban was repealed in 1993.

This shows you just how stoopid legislators can be. They feel that they can legislate, not only morality, but diets, as well.


it all seems so unamerican
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OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Dec, 2006 02:25 pm
Dartagnan wrote:
OCCOM BILL wrote:
Public Dime argument is bankrupt unless you are going to address every issue of equal consequence from the same perspective.


Oh? Does the same logic apply to laws against drunken driving?
I don't think that could be definitively confirmed... but maybe. When I got tagged for drunk driving and went to dui school I was astounded by the sheer volume of death and destruction it causes. Were those laws to be repealed; the statistics could very well rise to horrific proportions. Having managed a bar for the last 6 months, I can tell you that the laws are extremely effective. Key swiping is common and over half the regulars walk to and fro, even in the Winter because they're afraid of a dui.
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Chai
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Dec, 2006 02:54 pm
OCCOM BILL wrote:
Chai Tea wrote:
again, regardless of your answer to me before bill, I see it as creating more choices, not less.

you see it as taking away someones rights, I see it as giving people more rights.
Laughing That is flat out idiotic. You can't create more choice by eliminating choices.


Well thank you bill, that's appreciated coming from someone wearing a cheese on his head.

Going by the premise that A person has a choice not to buy fast food, but to go somewhere else or prepare it at home....where is it eliminating choices?

As I said before, if someone wants to eat trans fat, they can go somewhere else, order it from an area that still sells it, or prepare it at home.

They have the choice to eat what is available or find another way of getting it.

Just as the person today, if they don't want to eat transfats, has the choice to eat what is available, or find another way of getting it.

In that light, the choices remain exactly the same, it's just effecting different people.

In truth, most people won't give it a thought, and will eat what's available, but it will be healthier. If they want to eat the other, they have a choice to get it in another way.

In addition, the healthier diet that would be easier to get would allow many other choices in life, like not getting slappy elbow in your rib on a plane, or being able to walk up the stairs without angina.

These foods will not become unavailable, people will have to consciously make a choice to get it or not, instead of not making a choice and taking what's shoved in front of them.

Another thought....what about a person with very little money, and no satisfactory way to prepare food?

At Wendy's they have a .99cent menu, and that might be all they can afford for dinner.
I've looked at that menu, and here are the "choices", all high in trans fat....

Chili
Bacon Cheese Burger (BTW, They took the lower fat option of a barbeque cheese burger off the menu)
Deluxe cheese burger (I think delux means mayo)
Frosty (a milkshake)
French Fries
chicken nuggets, deep fried
chicken sandwich, deep fried.
A potoato with sour cream
A side salad

What choices would someone with little money have to get a nutritious meal? The potato sans sour cream? A side salad with no dressing? Well, if I wanted to make a healthy choice, neither would be appropriate. Neither has enough calories to satisfy, and the potato has a high glycemic load, I'd be hungry 1/2 an hour after the potato, and 2 minutes after the salad.

I don't choose to be hungry all night long until I can afford to eat again, so I'm denied a choice of food.

If lower fats were used in frying, that same person, who's trying to eat healthy on limited means, can now get some nuggets, chicken sandwich or maybe even FF's that will make do.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Dec, 2006 03:12 pm
On the subject of drinking and driving, I think there are other more common causes that includes a) poor road maintenance, b) high speed limits, c) trucks coming into the US from Mexico that doesn't have the same driver's license and vehicle maintenance standards, and d) seniors barely able to see with slow reaction times.
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OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Dec, 2006 03:19 pm
Laughing Chai Tea, you're getting warmer. You've abandoned "more choices" in favor of "choices remain exactly the same". Now quit with the Cool Hand Luke act and admit your error. As mentioned above; KFC has already decided to get away from trans fats in their chicken (Supply and demand doing it's duty sans government interference). With all of the attention this is getting, more restaurants will no doubt follow suit. But wait; Popeye's chicken hasn't changed a thing! This, of course, means you have a choice! However, the subject at hand is eliminating that choice, by law. Few propositions could be more ridiculous than claiming that eliminating choices doesn't eliminate choices.
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Dec, 2006 03:31 pm
ehBeth wrote:
and then there's the foie gras ban ...

anyone remember

Quote:
In 1992, the New Jersey Health Department banned restaurants from serving raw and undercooked eggs. No more; soft-boiled eggs, poached eggs, eggs over-easy, eggs sunny-side-up, raw eggs, hollandaise sauce, steak tartare, etc. Eventually sanity took over and the ban was repealed in 1993.

This shows you just how stoopid legislators can be. They feel that they can legislate, not only morality, but diets, as well.


it all seems so unamerican
That is about absurd, isn't it. The government's ability to be that idiotic is precisely what I'd prefer not setting a precedent for. Truth be told, I couldn't give a rat's ass less about trans fats. I'd rather do without too. But I damn sure don't want my Big Brother telling me what I can't eat.
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Chai
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Dec, 2006 03:40 pm
OCCOM BILL wrote:
Laughing Chai Tea, you're getting warmer. You've abandoned "more choices" in favor of "choices remain exactly the same". Now quit with the Cool Hand Luke act and admit your error. As mentioned above; KFC has already decided to get away from trans fats in their chicken (Supply and demand doing it's duty sans government interference). With all of the attention this is getting, more restaurants will no doubt follow suit. But wait; Popeye's chicken hasn't changed a thing! This, of course, means you have a choice! However, the subject at hand is eliminating that choice, by law. Few propositions could be more ridiculous than claiming that eliminating choices doesn't eliminate choices.



bill, you don't like reading my entire posts, do you?

anyway, this is no cool hand luke act, I'm not trying to convince anyone about anything. I'm expressing my opinion, and you're laughing at me. What's that all about?



If you want to know the truth, I think all fast food tastes like crap. whenever someone says "but it tastes so good" I feel like a stranger in a strange land. So, in light of my opinion on the taste, I also feel that people are being provided with more choices, as now they might be encouraged to see what real unadultered food tastes like.

Like anything else in life, if you've been exposed to nothing but nasty food, and other inferior products, you have few choices, because you don't even know they exist.

A whole new world might open up for some people, when they realize what they were missing.

In fact and this is going to sound nuts, but I'm only half kidding, sometimes I think McDonalds is downright evil. They, and others like them, have for generations been addicting us to this crap, and it's about time we gave choices BACK to the people. Eating nasty fast food is really an addiction, do addicts have choices?

Again, if you disagree with me, that's fair, just saying what's on my mind.
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ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Dec, 2006 03:44 pm
For me, this is very much a case of

Quote:
Your right to swing your fist ends where my nose begins


secondhand smoke impacting on my health is a version of your fist/my nose.

transfats/HFCS ... not so much

(though I do wonder about the impact on my insurance premiums ... but hopefully your premium will be higher than mine )
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OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Dec, 2006 04:01 pm
Chai Tea wrote:
OCCOM BILL wrote:
Few propositions could be more ridiculous than claiming that eliminating choices doesn't eliminate choices.



bill, you don't like reading my entire posts, do you?
I don't believe I've ever responded to a post without reading it in it's entirety. However, 162 pages of your other opinions won't make the assertion that you can gain or retain choices by eliminating choices less silly. That's what I'm laughing about... and for some reason your stubborn refusal to admit it is striking me as funnier still.

Fast Food may well taste like crap, but changing the oils in the deep fryer isn't going to turn it into real food either. Having owned a couple of decent restaurants, believe me, I know the difference. And while many people no doubt would benefit from trying something better, that still doesn't give the government the right to tell me what not to eat or any restaurant proprietor what not to sell.
0 Replies
 
 

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