MARK McGWIRE: In or Out?

@joefromchicago,

Yes, And Smith should have been in before Goose Gossage.

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@joefromchicago,

Quote:

parados wrote:
Eckersley is in the Hall because of his record as a closer.
That's a record that makes a better case for Lee Smith to be in the Hall than for Eckersley to be there.

the eck had 157+/- wins as a starter before he was converted to closer.
how many starter wins did lee smith have?

(for what it's worth, i agree that smith deserves to be in the Hall...)

1 Reply

@Region Philbis,

Region Philbis wrote:

Quote:
parados wrote:
Eckersley is in the Hall because of his record as a closer.
That's a record that makes a better case for Lee Smith to be in the Hall than for Eckersley to be there.
the eck had 157+/- wins as a starter before he was converted to closer.
how many starter wins did lee smith have?

As far as a I know, Smith never started. But then that just means he was never a mediocre starter, like Eckersley was. That, to my mind, is a plus for Smith.

Region Philbis wrote:

(for what it's worth, i agree that smith deserves to be in the Hall...)

Then you must be agreeing with someone else, 'cuz you're not agreeing with me.

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big mac to coach cards next season.

surpised he's willing to get back into the spotlight.
surely he knows what question will be asked over and over and over... ?

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@Region Philbis,

LaRussa is a really smart guy, and this looks to be mostly his doing...

I think the odds of his making the hall just went up.

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@Rockhead,

no plaque til he fesses up...

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@Region Philbis,

McGwire admits steroid use

NEW YORK (AP) -- Mark McGwire finally came clean Monday, admitting he used steroids when he broke baseball's home run record in 1998.

McGwire said in a statement sent to The Associated Press on Monday that he used steroids on and off for nearly a decade.

"I wish I had never touched steroids," McGwire said in a statement. "It was foolish and it was a mistake. I truly apologize. Looking back, I wish I had never played during the steroid era."

McGwire also used human growth hormone, a person close to McGwire said, speaking on condition of anonymity because McGwire didn't include that detail in his statement.

McGwire's decision to admit using steroids was prompted by his decision to become hitting coach of the St. Louis Cardinals, his final big league team. Tony La Russa, McGwire's manager in Oakland and St. Louis, has been among McGwire's biggest supporters and thinks returning to the field can restore the former slugger's reputation.

"I never knew when, but I always knew this day would come," McGwire said. "It's time for me to talk about the past and to confirm what people have suspected."
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/baseball/mlb/01/11/mcgwire.steroids.ap/index.html?eref=sihp

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@Region Philbis,

"during the steroid era" -- nice sidestep.

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@Region Philbis,

well i am

ed

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at his 1st day of spring training, big mac had this to say about his recent admission --

"It took a lot to do what I did,’’ McGwire said. “I spoke the truth. Let’s move on and turn this into a really positive thing."

Q: a positive thing, mark?
A: no a REALLY positive thing!

let's see...
he took PED's for years so he could stay healthy enough to break a few records.
after his body broke down and he retired, he refused to testify about it in front of congress.
his reputation is ruined; he will never gain access to the HOF.
he finally fessed up 5 years later so he could go back to work as a hitting coach.

positives?
not seeing any...

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@Region Philbis,

Amen. Everything about his confession and and apology has seemed calculated and phony.

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Funny that I'm now glad Bonds holds the single-season HR record, at least instead of McGwire. In that the argument with respect to Bonds isn't about his natural talent. It's more about deceit and, for me, lamenting that we'll never get to appreciate the records he could have set without PEDs. Whereas McGwire, well, without drugs he would've been just another clubber to be forgotten years from now.

1 Reply

Quote:

Mark McGwire said he was saddened that his estranged brother Jay wrote a semi-tell-all book detailing their steroid use and ruled out any chance of a reunion.

family feud -- big mac & bro at odds...

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more repercussions...

Quote:

Missouri set to take away McGwire's highway
The Missouri Senate wants to take away Mark McGwire's highway.

A stretch of Interstate 70 in St. Louis was designated the Mark McGwire Highway in 1999,
one year after the Cardinals slugger hit a then-record 70 home runs.

But McGwire has now admitted he used steroids, and the state Senate voted unanimously Monday
to rename the section of interstate the Mark Twain Highway. The measure now goes to the House.

http://www.thestar.com/sports/article/773651--missouri-set-to-take-away-mcgwire-s-highway

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@Gargamel,

Gargamel wrote:

Funny that I'm now glad Bonds holds the single-season HR record, at least instead of McGwire. In that the argument with respect to Bonds isn't about his natural talent. It's more about deceit and, for me, lamenting that we'll never get to appreciate the records he could have set without PEDs. Whereas McGwire, well, without drugs he would've been just another clubber to be forgotten years from now.

I don't know if McGwire has identified the point in his career at which he started talking PEDs. Let's assume that he's being honest when he says that he started taking steroids because he was injured, rather than because he wanted to become some raging, tiny-testicled baseball behemoth. He missed most of the 1993 and 1994 seasons with injuries, so let's say that he started taking PEDs sometime around then. Before that time, however, he was a pretty damned good player. He was the AL rookie of the year in 1987, and he had 220 HRs by the end of the 1992 season, when he was just 29 years old. He was on track, therefore, to be one of the best power hitters in the game, even without PEDs. If his career had ended because of injuries after the 1994 season, he wouldn't qualify for the HoF, but people would still remember him as a would-be great, sort of like people remember Fernando Valenzuela or Tony Conigliaro -- players who showed great promise early in their careers but who flamed out early because of injuries.

In sum, we won't know how McGwire would have performed later in his career without PEDs, but he wasn't some nobody whose career only took off when he started taking drugs.

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Hall of Fame ~ Class of 2013

does anyone get enough votes tomorrow?

http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x336/RegionPhilbis/HoF2013_zpsf739ad19.jpg

http://www.baseball-reference.com/awards/hof_2013.shtml

1 Reply

@Region Philbis,

Per Buster Olney last night on ESPN, only Craig Biggio comes close, but he (Olney) thinks (as does Tim Kurkjian) that no one will be elected this year. Next year's class (with Tom Glavine) will be better.

1 Reply

@jespah,

I don't know what the argument against Lee Smith entering the HOF. Is it that there's too many mediocre years and no enough excellent ones? Hmmm?

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Biggio is automatic because he has 3000 hits, but he may have to wait a year or two. He got to 3000 largely through longevity -- his career BA is only .281, and he never won a batting title. He was a dependable hitter, but never a dominating one. On the other hand, he was a good-fielding second baseman, which enhances his value.

He's the only candidate I'd vote for. Lee Smith would be a terrible choice. He led in saves four times, but his 478 saves rank only third on the career list, and that number looks more ordinary every year (he ranks ahead of John Franco -- nuff ced). His career ERA -- 3.03 -- is pretty high for a reliever, and he gave up a bunch of homers -- again, not something you want from your closer. And finally, the save is a fairly worthless statistic, although that isn't a widely held opinion among the baseball writers.

1 Reply

@joefromchicago,

jack morris might squeak through, otherwise the HoF won't be doing their thing this coming august...

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MARK McGWIRE: In or Out?

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