I am doubting my faith - need guidance/advice.

vikasomethingorother,
Please, PLEASE, do NOT fill your posts with continuous sentences and endless pages of full stops. I swear it makes me tear my hair out. Don't ask me why, it's just a fact of life.

Okay, that out of the way, please tell me your exact religion and denomination. That obscure username and the name of your master makes me wonder.

Next, how have you experienced God, and is there any chance at all of your experience being explained by coincidence or science (as all God experiences can be explained).

Thirdly, please clear up the contridictions and vague statements you have made.

Finally, your blind faith disgusts me.

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aperson, Please don't be so hard on vikasome. He's not exactly the only person that believes he "experienced" god.

The way I figure it, there are many smarter and dumber people in this world that claims they have also experienced god, so that aspect of it seems to be a reality for them. After all, all of our realities are based on what and how we perceive it. It's not totally out of character - even if the religion/god happens to be different for the humans on this planet.

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oops. I am so sorry that i am hurting u "a person" with the fullstops.i will avoid them.well my user name may seem weird but thats my name n i don't want to hide my identity.in India it does not sound weird to anybody.

anyways.let me make myself clear I HAVE NOT EXPERIENCED GOD. i am just like anyone of u trying to find out what god is all about.i have just presented to all of u as to what god could be.

my faith that god exists everywhere and in everything is not blind.it is from my contemplation and also the message given by my master,well if any of u are interested i could send it to u to your personal mail boxes because people would not like to read long explanations and descriptions on this forrum.my email id is [email protected].

i once again apologize for putting off many people on this forum.

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Neologist wrote:

Quote:

Starbucks has good choices in tea. And you would certainly be welcome, though I don't think you adequately addressed the difference between credulity and faith.

I had never equated the two before. I looked up credulity in the dictionary after you used the word in a prior post. I wanted to be sure that I was aware of all the varied and nuanced definitions of the word - and then did the same thing with the word "faith". In actuality, the definition of credulity was only similar to one of the definitions of "faith", and I was surprised myself to see that.

And I still don't fully equate the two. Maybe I'm giving believers (in anything) the benefit of the doubt, but I tend to believe that if someone has "faith" in someone or something - there are reasons. I don't assume that someone would adopt faith, trust, belief or knowledge in something that would influence the way they live their life without some sort of evidence that seemed real and convincing to them.

CI - It's interesting how peoples' early experiences shape them. My experience of Christians was the opposite of yours. To this day, the most accepting, loving people in my life are the Christians I was surrounded by in the church I attended from the time I was a baby. I can honestly say that those Christians (who included both of my parents) were not derogatory or judgemental toward anyone of different faiths or nationalities or beliefs - except maybe liberals (just kidding)- but even there, they eventually accepted heretics like me.
In that church it was all about loving your neighbor (who I was taught included any person anywhere) as yourself. I made many choices that I'm sure they didn't understand or agree with - but I was always made to feel loved and accepted. Thats why it's so sad to me that other people seem to have had such drastically different experiences.
And I can't attribute violence to religion any more than I can to any other incarnation of differences between people. I think nationalism, greed, and simple hunger for power have all been the cause of as many, if not more wars- including this current one. Religion just seems a more palatable excuse sometimes.

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aiden, You could have fooled me. North Ireland and Iraq seems to be perfect examples of religious wars.

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On the surface. The real issue behind the conflict in Northern Ireland, I believe, has much more to do with nationalism than religion. It just so happens that those who have retained their independence as Irish have also asserted their right to practice Catholocism, while those who have aligned themselves with England have, by default, adopted protestanism.
I wasn't really aware of how much conflict there is between the Irish and the English as nations until I lived here. I always just accepted it was all about religion too.

And in terms of Iraq - George Bush is not fighting for Christianity (though he's doing that on US soil). On his end, this war is about greed, or what he perceives to be the need for resources, and I believe the need to reaffirm to the world the power the US still holds (after having it threatened by 9/11). Unfortunately, that has kind of backfired on him, as the US is starting to look like a weakened nation prone to buffoonish mistakes.
As to religious justification for their terrorist attacks by those who claim to practice Islam- I don't accept those are condoned by Allah, or the majority of the Muslim people. I do believe they are misguided attempts to assert power and obtain control by inspiring fear and chaos, which they've been successful at doing - with George Bush's help- and are inspired by evil and not by any god - or goodness in the world.
People pervert religious teachings all the time to enact their own evil-but that doesn't make the religious teaching wrong. It makes the evil intent and interpretation of those particular practitioners wrong.

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Actually, I wasn't talking about Iraq's war as between the US and Muslims, but about the 1300 year old sectarian violence between the Shia and Sunnis.

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I see a few strong minded opinions on this thread, saying that there is a god or there isn't a god, but also some that take the middle ground and say : i think there isn't a god, or i think there is a god. Well, i'm going to side with the "middle grounders" on this one, and say "I have no freakin' idea what THE TRUTH actually is, but i just believe it might be like this .... (add whatever you want)".
Also i'd like to ask the people that claim to own THE TRUTH to share with all of us. I mean can any of you (people that KNOW there is/isn't a god) prove, beyond the shadow of a doubt that there is or isn't a god and what exactly it expects from us if it exists.
If not, then what you KNOW actually means what you BELIEVE, and then all that talk is only game of "my faith is bigger then yours". Not that there's necessarily something wrong with that, but since there are violent conflicts in the world even now caused by the fact that one side's "faith" is presumably "bigger then other side's", i can honestly say that it would be a good idea to keep searching for answers instead of biting someone's head of just because they don't believe/agree with the truth that we don't actually know.
If anyone could prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that there is/isn't a god and what it wants from us i swear i will be their slave through this entire life (if they'll have me), because they would answer the single most important question that humanity has to answer and they would deserve my unwaivering servitude. Well, i hope you like the joke, but seriously, all the money in the world would not be sufficient to thank the person(s) who would prove it.

Now let's hear it.

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aidan wrote:

On the surface. The real issue behind the conflict in Northern Ireland, I believe, has much more to do with nationalism than religion. It just so happens that those who have retained their independence as Irish have also asserted their right to practice Catholocism, while those who have aligned themselves with England have, by default, adopted protestanism.
I wasn't really aware of how much conflict there is between the Irish and the English as nations until I lived here. I always just accepted it was all about religion too.

And in terms of Iraq - George Bush is not fighting for Christianity (though he's doing that on US soil). On his end, this war is about greed, or what he perceives to be the need for resources, and I believe the need to reaffirm to the world the power the US still holds (after having it threatened by 9/11). Unfortunately, that has kind of backfired on him, as the US is starting to look like a weakened nation prone to buffoonish mistakes.
As to religious justification for their terrorist attacks by those who claim to practice Islam- I don't accept those are condoned by Allah, or the majority of the Muslim people. I do believe they are misguided attempts to assert power and obtain control by inspiring fear and chaos, which they've been successful at doing - with George Bush's help- and are inspired by evil and not by any god - or goodness in the world.
People pervert religious teachings all the time to enact their own evil-but that doesn't make the religious teaching wrong. It makes the evil intent and interpretation of those particular practitioners wrong.

Very well said!!!!
Since people have learned more and more about Islam - After its thrust into the limellight, more and more people have been realising the true nature of Islam - and how it perfects the Abrahamic docturines.

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Eretiq wrote:

I see a few strong minded opinions on this thread, saying that there is a god or there isn't a god, but also some that take the middle ground and say : i think there isn't a god, or i think there is a god. Well, i'm going to side with the "middle grounders" on this one, and say "I have no freakin' idea what THE TRUTH actually is, but i just believe it might be like this .... (add whatever you want)".
Also i'd like to ask the people that claim to own THE TRUTH to share with all of us. I mean can any of you (people that KNOW there is/isn't a god) prove, beyond the shadow of a doubt that there is or isn't a god and what exactly it expects from us if it exists.
If not, then what you KNOW actually means what you BELIEVE, and then all that talk is only game of "my faith is bigger then yours". Not that there's necessarily something wrong with that, but since there are violent conflicts in the world even now caused by the fact that one side's "faith" is presumably "bigger then other side's", i can honestly say that it would be a good idea to keep searching for answers instead of biting someone's head of just because they don't believe/agree with the truth that we don't actually know.
If anyone could prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that there is/isn't a god and what it wants from us i swear i will be their slave through this entire life (if they'll have me), because they would answer the single most important question that humanity has to answer and they would deserve my unwaivering servitude. Well, i hope you like the joke, but seriously, all the money in the world would not be sufficient to thank the person(s) who would prove it.

Now let's hear it.

Im not going to try and give you the proof you think you need.

But i will leave a few quotes from the Quran

The Romans have been defeated in the lowest land, but after their defeat they will be victorious within three to nine years. The affair is Allah's from beginning to end."

"And it is We Who have constructed the heaven with might, and verily, it is We Who are steadily expanding it."

"Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of Creation), before We clove them asunder?"

As for believing this stuff. It is up to God to guide you for no-one else can.
The key to guidance is sincerity. If you sincerely ask the one Supreme being for help and guidance to his path, negating all other desires as secondary. then God willing you will be put on the correct path.

And Allah (Arabic for God) knows best

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"Im not going to try and give you the proof you think you need." Now don't be mean, if you have it, please do share, I'll buy you a beer, or whatever it is that you do drink.

1. Quotes from your holly book DOES NOT equal PROOF, nor do they help in answering my questions. That is all they are : quotes from a book, written by a man, who claims to have recieved indications directly from god. If i claim god spoke to me in my dream last night and write a book about it, will you believe me (although there might be quite a few that will, if i put together a nice story) ? I don't think so. So why should i believe what's written in that book regarding the nature and will of god.
2. How exactly has god shown you what is true.
3. To ask god for guidance would mean to actually admit that god (any god) exists, and i don't KNOW that. And for that matter, what god should i ask for guidance since i have quite a few to pick from ?
4. Why should i believe Allah is the one true god, appart from the fact that you say so, and your holly book says so. So do so many other holly books and so many other people about their religion.

As a conclusion, i'm not saying you or Islam are wrong when it comes to what god is and what it wants from us, because i don't KNOW that. I'm just asking you to prove to me that you're right.

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Eretiq wrote:

"Im not going to try and give you the proof you think you need." Now don't be mean, if you have it, please do share, I'll buy you a beer, or whatever it is that you do drink.

1. Quotes from your holly book DOES NOT equal PROOF, nor do they help in answering my questions. That is all they are : quotes from a book, written by a man, who claims to have recieved indications directly from god. If i claim god spoke to me in my dream last night and write a book about it, will you believe me (although there might be quite a few that will, if i put together a nice story) ? I don't think so. So why should i believe what's written in that book regarding the nature and will of god.
2. How exactly has god shown you what is true.
3. To ask god for guidance would mean to actually admit that god (any god) exists, and i don't KNOW that. And for that matter, what god should i ask for guidance since i have quite a few to pick from ?
4. Why should i believe Allah is the one true god, appart from the fact that you say so, and your holly book says so. So do so many other holly books and so many other people about their religion.

As a conclusion, i'm not saying you or Islam are wrong when it comes to what god is and what it wants from us, because i don't KNOW that. I'm just asking you to prove to me that you're right.

1 = Quotes from a holy book that predict things that could not have been known at the time equates to proof. Miracles performed by Mohammed (saws), Moses, Jesus (as) witnessed by thousands equates to proof, otherwise as you say who would believe them?
Furthermore each prophet performed miracles that were constant with the theme that people were most advanced in, in terms of knowledge at the time ae.g
Moses (as) parted the Red Sea and performed other magic, as magic was advanced at that time
Jesus (as) Healed and resurrected as medicine was advancing at that time
Mohammed (saw) was revealed the Quran at a time when literature and poetry was very advanced. He also split the moon which was documented in different area's of the world.
2 = I put my faith in God that he has opened my heart and guided me to the right path.
Have an open mind, and be Sincere
3 = THERE IS ONLY ONE GOD. Ask Him for guidance to the path that He wants you to follow. For if there is only ONE GOD, there can only be ON PATH.
4 = See point one

Please ask if you have further queries

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1. You call that a prediction ? Now a prediction would have been to tell exactly when. 3 to 9 years. Good one.
2. David Blaine does some pretty impressive stuff as do so many other magicians. Would you say they do that stuff because god is giving them the un-natural power to do so. A lot of people witness that too and books have been written about that.
3. First of all you accepted there is a god as a solid fact wich i do not. First prove to me there is a god then i will ask him for guidance.
4. David Copperfield walked through the great wall of China. Can your profet beat that ? Also, things get twisted and turned over time when it comes to stories like that. Appart from the fact that splitting the moon sounds like a bunch of crazy talk, were you there to see it happen, with the knowledge that you have now ? If you're going to argue that a lot of people witnessed it, then check point no.2, and i'll add to that, that people would believe without questioning a lot of things back then. Some still do (you are a good example of it). Well maybe i'm wrong, but if i am please let me know if you ever questioned the writtings of your holly book, or just believed them because they were written there.

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Eretiq,
I must say that I side with you, although my view is that God is an unneccessary factor, and can be removed by using Occam's razor.

I can see things from both sides, having been a Christian for many years, then becoming atheist, then back to Christian, then contemplating Buddhism, then atheist, then looking at Buddhism again, and finally settling in an "I've got no fricking idea" state, similar to yours.

I do know that not all Christians are good people, and not all people are Christians. So, I tend more towards atheism but decide not to call myself that, because I see that (in my country anyway) children are growing up with no moral values. This is increasingly worrying, especially since the next generation will have to deal with many problems as well as make many decisions based on ethics.

See my signature. I like to keep both eyes open. On one side we have the black hole of one argument, and on the other we have the black hole of the other argument. To stay balanced in the middle is extremely difficult.

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aperson wrote:

So, I tend more towards atheism but decide not to call myself that, because I see that (in my country anyway) children are growing up with no moral values. This is increasingly worrying, especially since the next generation will have to deal with many problems as well as make many decisions based on ethics.

I am not sure that I see your problem aperson. To my way of thinking the moral values of civilization have improved over time as we gradually chuck the ones handed down from ancient religious texts.

There are no witches. The witch text remains; only the practice has changed. Hell fire is gone, but the text remains. Infant damnation is gone, but the text remains. More than two hundred death penalties are gone from the law books, but the texts that authorized them remain. Mark Twain

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mesquite,
Notice the "in my country anyway".

I do not wish to be stereotyped as an unethical atheist.

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You won't find too many that want to be stereotyped but you'll be hard pressed to find many that don't stereotype others either. The middle ground is fun but don't hang around there just for the sake of avoiding labels, well I wouldn't anyway, what/who you are and what/who you want to be, emphasis on "you" are what's important. Sympathise with the moral values point though. I'd like to see more "ethics" type education and less stricter/narrower "religious studies" myself, I may have mentioned this before though on a2k.

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Aperson, As many A2Kers know by now I am an athiest (well, a kind of athiest--the ontology of God makes no sense to me, not that I "believe" in a No-God) and a long-time lay (but practicing) Buddhist. You might appreciate that when I meditate I do it with an "I've got no fricking idea" state of mind. In other words, a "this-worldly-religious-mentality" has no need of "faith", "belief", or a church, in order to examine one's existence with religious intensity and reverence.

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Ok, man in hoody and large cat.

Yea... although I know most Buddhists are atheists, I usually use the term "atheist" as "person who does not believe in any religion".

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after some contemplation i asked who i am?just the body.but the mind directs the body to act in a particular way.then do we follow only our mind.our mind leads us to think mostly about personal gains and personal welfare.it struck me that we are lead by our conscience.thats the reason we are hurt when we see somebody else in pain, when we see tyranny around us.but how would it matter if someone else suffered when i am fine?yet when there is somebody else in pain our heart goes out to them.but why?i believe there is something common that connects all of us.one common force.the universal consciousness.this is the force i call god.i don't believe much in religion .all of us are first humans.

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I am doubting my faith - need guidance/advice.

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