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I am doubting my faith - need guidance/advice.

 
 
duce
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Dec, 2006 09:33 am
Quote:
does that mean he can create something too heavy for him to lift. i



It's amazing how people try to narrowly define God.

Too heavy is a term that exists because of GRAVITY. God is not subject to gravity any more than to time. We have a hard time grasping the concept of GOD. One reason is we want to "be in charge of our own destinty". Higher Being, Higher Power, Almighty God, does not live in this world nor is He subject to its laws. We do and one day we will live in another world, we do not get to chose to "sit out" just where to sit (if you will).
0 Replies
 
mesquite
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Dec, 2006 09:54 am
Abid wrote:
Of course all texts that contradict the final message of God should be mistrusted that goes without saying really.


Abid, you are the master of irony.
0 Replies
 
Abid
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Dec, 2006 12:10 pm
duce wrote:
Quote:
does that mean he can create something too heavy for him to lift. i



It's amazing how people try to narrowly define God.

Too heavy is a term that exists because of GRAVITY. God is not subject to gravity any more than to time. We have a hard time grasping the concept of GOD. One reason is we want to "be in charge of our own destinty". Higher Being, Higher Power, Almighty God, does not live in this world nor is He subject to its laws. We do and one day we will live in another world, we do not get to chose to "sit out" just where to sit (if you will).


I agree TOTALLY!!!
Very Happy
0 Replies
 
Abid
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Dec, 2006 12:11 pm
mesquite wrote:
Abid wrote:
Of course all texts that contradict the final message of God should be mistrusted that goes without saying really.


Abid, you are the master of irony.


And you are a master of something else i wouldn't like to mention.

Some of you posts on other threads show your true nature and character though.
0 Replies
 
mesquite
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Dec, 2006 12:53 pm
It is noteworthy Abid, that you get all upset over a cartoon, yet are ho hum when a fanatical cleric takes revenge upon a psychologically troubled 16 year old girl.
0 Replies
 
Abid
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Dec, 2006 12:58 pm
mesquite wrote:
It is noteworthy Abid, that you get all upset over a cartoon, yet are ho hum when a fanatical cleric takes revenge upon a psychologically troubled 16 year old girl.


Hey I didnt say I Like the situation, but I take comfort in knowing the fact that everyone will get whats coming to them!!!

Very Happy
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Dec, 2006 02:32 pm
Abid wrote:
Timber,
If you feel it makes you feel better about yourself to laugh at me thats fine, im not on here to make you like me or to have the last laugh, it is to convey the message of peace and harmony and of submitting to God the way he has ordained. You and others may laugh thinking (or like me for a long time) that the truth as it is too hard to accept, but you are not hurting me, rather you are hurting yourself. But you just don't know it. i was happy and had a wonderful life before Islam, and my life no doubt has become harder since I reverted to Islam, but I am much happier now than I ever was as a disbeliever. Once the truth is accepted, your heart is opened up and you see things in a completley new light. you begin to contemplate life more and its meanings. I feel sad and it hurts me to see so many people in error. As a command from God, we should spread this wonderful message as far as possible
Allahu Akbar (God is the Greatest of the great)

To begin with, Abid, your implication that I am laughing at you - thereby making myself "feel better" about myself, is pure straw-man argument; first, leaving aside any consideration of whether I might or might not have any cause or desire to "feel better", I do not laugh at you, I laugh at the inept manner by which you forward your proposition. Next, I do not think " ... the truth as it is too hard to accept ... ", I have seen nothing in that which you heretofore have presented indicating anything beyond self-referential claim of truth. Continuing, I have neither desire nor motive to "hurt" you (nor really, for that matter, anyone else not presenting clear and present physical threat) - that I do not know you, or even of you - apart from inanimate pixels on an inanimate monitor - in any physical sense renders any such suppositional construct as you therewith present absurd on its foundationless face; you offer not argument or defense, but rather, via unwarranted claim of victimhood you engage in fallacies of evasion and distraction, thereby, consciously or otherwise no matter, you perpetrate demonstrable falsehood. With that part of your most recent presentation demolished, demonstrated on multiple level to be absurdity not argument, we may move on to the remainder.

You say:
Quote:
... i was happy and had a wonderful life before Islam, and my life no doubt has become harder since I reverted to Islam, but I am much happier now than I ever was as a disbeliever. Once the truth is accepted, your heart is opened up and you see things in a completley new light. you begin to contemplate life more and its meanings. I feel sad and it hurts me to see so many people in error. As a command from God, we should spread this wonderful message as far as possible ...


Ignoring the fact you predicate that innefectual bit of expository excercize upon unverifiable claim stemming from anecdote purporting to relate claimed personal experience, you offer no argument whatsoever, no validation for or justification of your claims, express or implied. Rather, you present only declaration of personal faith - you simply make further claim founded in nothing beyond claims predicate upon self-referencing, self-claimed authority. Pure and simple circular reasoning, your referenced offering as presented starts nowhere, goes nowhere, and serves only to demonstrate, conclusively, the intellectual bankruptcy of your presentation of the proposition you forward. You do nothing for your case while at the same time you persistently and concretely validate the objections to your case I have presented.

With champions given to the manner of presentation you so far have employed, the proposition you forward has little cause to complain of external enemies.
0 Replies
 
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Dec, 2006 03:15 pm
Abid wrote:
duce wrote:
Quote:
does that mean he can create something too heavy for him to lift. i



It's amazing how people try to narrowly define God.

Too heavy is a term that exists because of GRAVITY. God is not subject to gravity any more than to time. We have a hard time grasping the concept of GOD. One reason is we want to "be in charge of our own destinty". Higher Being, Higher Power, Almighty God, does not live in this world nor is He subject to its laws. We do and one day we will live in another world, we do not get to chose to "sit out" just where to sit (if you will).


I agree TOTALLY!!!
Very Happy


I hate to break this to you two, but the metaphore of making rocks too big to lift has nothing to do with rocks and gravity and lifting. It has to do with the logical viability of omnipotence as a concept.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Dec, 2006 04:28 pm
duce wrote:
Too heavy is a term that exists because of GRAVITY. God is not subject to gravity any more than to time.

Aha. So it follows he can't make a stone that's too heavy for him to lift. Right?
0 Replies
 
aperson
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Dec, 2006 05:24 pm
There's no way anyone can prove that God can do both of these things.
0 Replies
 
Eretiq
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Dec, 2006 03:33 am
duce, i've got a question for you, since you missed the metaphor in rockpie's question and picked on the technicalities :

Can god end it's own existence ?

I believe rockpie asked this too in a previous post.
Good luck answering this one.
0 Replies
 
anton bonnier
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Dec, 2006 05:59 pm
I can Twisted Evil the day the human race disappear from this earth Idea
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Dec, 2006 10:06 pm
anton, Very wise: god will disappear when man disappears.
0 Replies
 
Raul-7
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Dec, 2006 10:53 pm
anton bonnier wrote:
I can Twisted Evil the day the human race disappear from this earth Idea


Oh, what a delusion! You're nothing more than those who have been mislead by Satan. He only leads his followers to be among the Searing Blaze, and yet you choose to take him as your protector instead of Allah.

He [Satan] said, "By Your misguidance of me, I will lie in ambush for them on your Straight Path. Then I will come at them, from in front of them and behind them, from their right and from their left. You will not find most of them thankful." (Surat al-A'raf: 16-17)

Satan is trying to delude you in this life to make you among those who enter Hell with him (by denying God) - why do you choose to follow him? Why?

Even Allah has warned you of this:

O Humanity! Allah's promise is true. Do not let the life of this world delude you and do not let the deluder delude you about Allah. Satan is your enemy, so treat him as an enemy. He summons his party so they will be among the people of the Searing Blaze. (Surah Fatir: 5-6)

Please, I am doing this out of concern for all of you. Believe your Creator, He only wants to lead you towards prosperity and to forgive you into becoming among the companions of Heaven. While Satan deludes you and tries to lead you into joining him in Hell. Who do you trust?
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Dec, 2006 01:01 am
Look who's talking about "delusions." LOL
0 Replies
 
Francis
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Dec, 2006 02:11 am
Eretiq wrote:
Can god end it's own existence ?


As God is said to be omniscient and almighty, not only he could but he should..
0 Replies
 
aperson
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Dec, 2006 05:18 pm
Look, Raul,
Nobody is going to see things your way if you explain things from a Muslim point of view. You have to explain things from their perspective and gradually shift their view. To an atheist your quotes go right through one ear and out through the other. Also vica versa.

Good luck.
0 Replies
 
Eorl
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Dec, 2006 09:54 pm
Raul-7 wrote:
Please, I am doing this out of concern for all of you. Believe your Creator, He only wants to lead you towards prosperity and to forgive you into becoming among the companions of Heaven. While Satan deludes you and tries to lead you into joining him in Hell. Who do you trust?


How do we know it is not you who works for Satan? How many atheist suicide bombers do you know of? Murder would not seem to be the will of a benevolent god, and yet he commands you to murder atheists in his name?

Raul, are you Sunni, Shi'ite, or something else again? Which of these is satan leading astray?
0 Replies
 
Raul-7
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Dec, 2006 11:41 pm
Eorl wrote:
Raul-7 wrote:
Please, I am doing this out of concern for all of you. Believe your Creator, He only wants to lead you towards prosperity and to forgive you into becoming among the companions of Heaven. While Satan deludes you and tries to lead you into joining him in Hell. Who do you trust?


How do we know it is not you who works for Satan? How many atheist suicide bombers do you know of? Murder would not seem to be the will of a benevolent god, and yet he commands you to murder atheists in his name?

Raul, are you Sunni, Shi'ite, or something else again? Which of these is satan leading astray?


If I were to work for Satan I would not even bother to warn you, or infact I would rather make you disbelieve or to continue to deny God's existence. If I were following Satan; it would make me happier to see you join me in Hell rather than seeing you join me in Heaven. I would convince you to commit evil (backstabbing, mockery, lieing, decieving etc.) instead of good (honesty, faithfulness, forgiveness, patience, empathy, etc.).

God does not command us to kill unbelievers without a reason, we are only ordered to kill those who killed us or oppressed us. That's how it started out back then, the idolaters/unbelievers of Arabia hated this new religion and were trying their best to get rid of it.

For example-

God does not forbid you from being good to those who have not fought you in the religion or driven you from your homes, or from being just towards them. God loves those who are just. (Surat al-Mumtahana: 8)

God even refers to the idolaters at war with Muslims like this-

"If any of the idolaters ask you for protection, give them protection until they have heard the words of God. Then convey them to a place where they are safe." (Surat at-Tawba: 6)


Thus no where is it justified to kill aetheists who haven't tried to harm us, instead we're supposed to try to save those who weren't as fortunate to have been blessed with the religion. It's our duty, we (Muslims) will be held accountable for everyone who goes to Hell. This nation [everyone who came after the Prophet (pbuh)] is supposed to be the best of people, we are supposed to command people with the good and forbid them from doing evil.

The Prophet (pbuh) even once cried over the grave of a [not sure of what religion] man and the Companions asked why are you crying over him? He replied: I could have saved him from Hell, but I was too late.


I am Sunni, we have to follow what the Prophet (pbuh) did and not deviate into different sects.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Dec, 2006 11:53 pm
So the Shi'ite are deluded, doomed, heretical apostates, then, and in that they oppose the Sunni regarding matters of faith and campaign actively in furtherence of the primacy of their interpretation of what rightfully and righteously is Islam over yours, are suitable for killing, right?
0 Replies
 
 

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