Don't tell me there's no proof for evolution

I have never heard it more beautifully explained outside of poetry, myth, and music. Your words are like a combination of Neil de Grasse Tyson and Joseph Campbell. If these are your own original words, then you should write a book on the subject.

Wow! such praise indeed!... Thank you... Now I'll have to get a bat and beat down that damn ego down again... I'm just kidding round... My ego has taken a pretty good licking this time around... haha

I actually started a book about 15 years ago on the subject... I was trying to do what is automatic writing back then... Which I am not good at, at all... But I figured I should at least try to write a book... FYI I am highly dyslexic! If it weren't for spell check this would be illegible... I got about a third of the way through the book when I desided to stop and read it... I was all over the place... I would try to be light hearted and tell a spiritual story that would be funny or odd... and then I would get serious and almost mad at humanity for ignoring our creator... and then back down to light hearted again... That's when I realized I couldn't write a book and I threw it out... I also thought that I don't really know anything that can't be found in a few books with a little meditation...

Writing is difficult if not impossible. I think many people try, but give it up when they find it more challenging than they anticipated.
Many people tell me I should write about my travels, having traveled to over 80 countries. I wouldn't know where to begin. Maybe, listing all the countries and cities visited - in big print - will make up about 25 pages. LOL

If I was a younger man and thought it might sell and do some good, I would take a run at... Even now when I know my mistakes from last time and that fact that all you have to do is talk to your computer now... Back then I was still writing by hand... I use to get writer's cramps... That's no fun... No... I don't need to write a book... It's a lot of work and it's already out there... All you half to do is be willing to look...

Yeah, no doubt writing is difficult, but you're good at it, and that's rare. A book like that is desperately needed, because these are bad times, and I think the young people are floundering

I do not agree. My life has been so different from my three siblings. Although I've been the yellow sheep of the family, I think my life has been more interesting. I have friends in many countries including Russia, Cuba, Germany, France, England, Singapore, Mexico, and all across the US. I have traveled to Esperanza Base in Antarctica, flew to Mt Everest, dipped my feet in the Dead Sea, and visited Ushuaia and Hammerfest.


and

Make it a picture travel book, CI. Lots of color photos and captions. No need for a lengthy text.

Sorry, my 'puter flagged out on me on Mon and I wasnt able to post any contributions from my cell phone-too small of a keyboard. So,lemme see your summary point.

I sorta see where you wish to go but remember that chemistry reacts the same whether at the colloidal, molecular, ionic,or quantum world. Evolution, as we seem to be finding, is CONTINGENT upon so many unrelated factors that we can see same parent species develop totally unrelated daughter species, and infrequently, totally unrelated species can , converge in their "body parts". The"solution" for natural selection is often unlimited and most often not duplicated except for topical features like ears or long stamens in plants with flowers.

My long time assertion here is that biology rages AGAINST chemical gradients and hence entropy (while organisms live). To compare it to mere chemical structure , reactions, and P chem , and thereby claiming "intelligence by virtue of a particular physical state", to me waaay oversimplifies how life really works

No doubt, no doubt! and there is the problem... Religion, with is hidden means and scince, looking for the answers in the finite instead of the infinite... It's a wonder that anybody ever experienced God... People make it more complicated than what it is...

It reminds me of this story of this great Guru {spiritual teacher} living in the foothills of the himalayan mountains, right above a small town of 500 people... He has these 4 disciples {students} that he was teaching... and these four disciples would come down to the town for food.. After a while the people were catching bits and pieces of wisdom from these four disciples... The townspeople started begging these these 4 young students to talk to their teacher, and for him to come down and speak with the people ... After months of begging the Guru agreed...

The townspeople get all excited and build a huge stage for him... Invite people from all the neighboring towns... About ten thousand people show up to hear this great man speak... He walks out onto the stage sits down and crosses his legs and goes into a meditation... Out of reverence and respect all ten thousand people sit down and go into a meditation... 10 minutes goes by, then 20 and 30 and right around about 45 minutes this one man can't stand it anymore and stands up and yells... " Oh dear great one, tell us the secret of life!" ... Then another man stands up and says "Yes, yes oh dear one, how can I know God!" and then another one, and another one, until all 10 thousand people are standing and yell...

The Guru slowly opens his eyes and slowly gets up and walks up to the mic and you could hear a pin drop and he says "Don't do bad karma, do good karma!" and then he walks off the stage...

I have done target practice with the .45, but we ended up carrying the 38s when we worked around the bombs. It was less balky and lighter. Besides that, the .45 had too much of a kick.

While I dont simply reject intelligence in the universe,(we have managed to score breakthroughs to understand the simplicity thqt surrounds the rules of matter , energy and time that we simply dont have any evidence beyond an assertion that "Life is too complicated to have arisen merely by "chance".

Many people live avoiding to really take the time to understand whqt we know in science. Like our own gunganake, he lives in the shadow world of old ways of thinking, fringe hypotheses, religious dogma and he likes to make broad pronouncements about all life based upon false interpretations of many new findings . We undertand that there are areas in evolution that still lack solid evidence , but these areas, like the origin of bat, the origin of C3 v C4 plants, how long (REQLLY) did the "Cambrian Explosion" last, and how did the presence of free Oxygen in the environment stimulate such wonderful forms of life to appear in the fossil record?
Ascribing many of these things is scientific laziness in my mind. Its either that or a deep fear that all life may be on its own.

Many people have stated the theistic evolution path but, so far, no real evidence has presented itself, whereas , as far as "naturalism", we seem to trip over evidence that more and more shows us of the contingent nature of the whole ball of life and its progress through time.
PS , my own guru story involves a long set up tale about these guys who brave the jungles and the mountains to reach a guru who tells them that "life is a river',, "But I could be wrong on that"
Science still is heavily invested in the "I could be wrong on that" but thats where the fun lives. I attend several of my conferences every few years and love to listen to the presentations on some new findings and what theyMAY mean. The discussions and argument that ensues is always based upon some guy whose career i invested in one way of thinking suddenly being challenged by something entirely new.
(Like the newest finds of human origins NOT only residing in the rift valley of Africa, but instead presenting a possibility of a more continent wide "cradle". There are many scientists who have lived and published on their single finds and now, all of a sudden, their own "missing link" is overshadowed by something out of left field;
Or when continental drift became evidenced beyond any doubts . These finds have often caused many of the real giants of a science to "pack it in" and call it quits rather than learn a whole new set of rules.
I find that waay more interesting than the "culture wars" that often separate science from religion.

In my time as a security guard I carried and qualified with a Smith and Wesson 4506. Loved the weight and general performance.

I think I might have heard that story.... Something about you can't step into the same water twice... Life, in fact is ever fleeting, everything comes and goes... If it's good when it comes we are happy and when it goes we are sad... If it's a bad thing then we are unhappy when it goes we are relieved... It is our attachment to things, experiences and people that make us suffer... If you meditate and get away from all the details, the mind will eventually be able to recognize divine orchestration and relax... There is a saying "that there is not enough time in one lifetime to get there by reading... But then the question has to rise to mind... {Where is there?}

Like I said I was born with this burning desire to know the truth... God is giving me a break right now, a rest so to speak... and then I might take another run at it... If I do, this will be my fourth time trying to drop the individual ego... I learn a long time ago not to question the timing of anything {Godspeed} and to just let it all come and go without attachment...

I have a beautiful wife of 40 years who was just about an atheist when I meet her... She couldn't believe how a loving father would sentence a person to hell for ever when her earthly father would not... Is it possable her earthly father loved her more than God himself? ...To be honest there is no place to go! Heaven and hell is a state of mental and physical pleasure and suffering and we are all a combination of both... It's never the kill, It's all about the hunt; and it's never about the destination it's always about the journey... and since there's no end to God then there is no one place to go...

You're never going to find God by focusing on the details... It's like looking at a beautiful painting through a microscope... All you see is color pigmentations and you completely miss the beauty of the painting... If fact you might not even know the painting exists...

There is this Guru and his student standing in the gandhi river and the student says to his teacher, "When will I know God like you?" The Guru grabs the back of his neck and forces him under the water... He just about drowned the poor man, when he pulls him back up and says. "Do you know how bad you wanted that next breath? When you want God that bad you will have him..."

It is very refreshing to talk to someone with some intellect who may or may not agree with me but doesn't bash everything I say… The question I have to ask myself, is this what God wants me doing right now?… Believing In and looking for divine intervention or orchestration can be a trick little trap and I have to be careful…

I am trying not to toot my own horn here, if you know what I mean… I am an amateur scientist… I have always had a hard time believing in that blind faith thing!... I thought, if I am going to go out of my way, to fall for everything a religion says to me, and incorporate all these silly little habits and rituals, I want some prove! … Not! And let me say this twice, it's NOT a good attitude to take up with your father… God will throw so much at you to study you'll wish you weren't born sometimes…

Around about 1980 my mother started getting sick… As I think I've stated she was a saint… I won't go into all the details but it took her 8 long years of suffering be for she died… It is and was the most horrifying thing I have ever experienced to date… I went into 6 years of deep depression {Which is not me at all} and didn't know what was even causing it… After begging God for help and crawling my way back to communicate with him again I had to ask the question why?

I knew there had to be a better way! So I take a hard look at our medical industry and big pharma that has been born out of western science and driven by money and killed my mother and I go nope! That’s out the window…

But silly little me couldn't just let it lay; and once again I throw it up in God's face and say "Hey what's up with this find the truth and the truth will set you free stuff?... You know! The ask and it shall be given to you process… Piece of cake right! .. Now all I have to do is incorporate the seek and ye shall find process…

Now God and I made a pack when I made my first run in 71? and we both know I am dyslexic so make it obvious… It's 1997 now and my own health is starting to fail me… By now I I'm deep into Paramahansa Yogananda and I was doing some light reading, so I was reading one book or another by Deepak Chopra this word, "Ayurveda" keeps coming up and I thought I need another field of study like I need a hole in my head…

This Yoga magazine shows up in the mail that neither my wife and I ordered and we think they are just trying to get our business… A month later the same magazine shows up with a bill… My wife says, well we have enjoyed it so what the heck…I don't know how long it took me to noticed this but there was this add in the back for the California College of Ayurveda {Which turns out to be one of the best schools in the world…} It is 30 miles from my home and I just happen to have some money, so I go for it… This is a kind of part time 2 year college… You go to classes 4 days a month and they buried us in a mountain of homework… and then I also work 50 hours a week at my job… This to date is one of the hardest things I have ever had to do… Dyslexic do not do will with nonobjective referral words… It's all about the big picture and if there is no object to refer to it leaves a big hole in the picture… When I start there 22 students in my call and in the two years there was only 4 left... It's was one tough school back then... I'm hoping the founder has lightened up a little...

Ayurveda is a massive subjective refer system that encompasses the science behind the body, mind and soul… and for the first six months I thought I would never get it… Then it hit me like a ton of bricks and I got mad {Which is extremely rare for me} I couldn't understand why this wasn't being taught in our schools like personal hygiene…

A year a half later I get out of school and I had created this enormous habit for studying and I was kind of addicted… So I study Jyotish {The science of light} Ayurveda, which is considered the sister of Yoga alone with Jyotish are massive systems come out of the Himalayan mountains in the language Sanskrit the only unambiguous language in the world and only 3 to 5% of it has been translated into English…
From <http://vedicsciences.net/articles/sanskrit-nasa.html>

I am the guy like the monk standing over the puddle and this scorpion crawls into the water and the monk picks it up and puts it on dry land and gets stung… After this happens two or three time this man watch this says" Good lord man don't you know that thing is biting you?" And the monk says "It's in his nature…" The man says…"Well why don't you stop doing that?" …The monk says "Well, it's in my nature to save it's life…" Be Careful what you ask for you might get... Namaste!

Weve had several followers of Buddha here in this forum. Even some Monks (who apparently were enough interested in the technology of this world as q means of seeking their own path. Several have been science academics nd others who only use the homilies as examples of how to seek a good life(never could figure out whether they followed em).

My biggest problem has always been with the Fundamental Christians who , not only are they seeking their own path, but, for some reason,they are certain that theyve been "annointed" need to meddle with mine and "dhange my wicked beliefs in science".
They post wholesale untruths and BS bout how things like evo/devo are garbage and that Creationism should be taught side by side with science. Darwins great- grandson wrote a book in 2007 about how he was convinced that the American mind, as creative qnd innovative weve been to the world, we have a need to only associate with folks who think as we do (think: politicl talk shows), and the position that religions occupy qre waay beyond their relevance. He said thqt, in Britain, the Creationist movement had only begun recently as the early 1980's because most Brits accept AND UNDERSTAND what evolution i actually about and what contingent speciation and natural selection means.(He was sort calling us stupid).

So, in summary to my (unrelated to your) point is, in 1859 it was still posible to understand all of where science and engineering contained, its impossible today so people usually give up and dwell in their "comfort zones" which are often untrained views of what has occure d in biology over the billions of years weve been part of the solar system. So, comfortable stories dont bother me at all. My only concern is if (unlike Darwins great grandson) see schools adding creationism, ID, or Theistic evolution to science curricula, it needs to be addressed by the schools directors and the parents.

I really have nothing to say AGAINST something like theistic evolution, hell, with about half a pile of evidence notwithstanding, it could have been true. At least it makes a philosophically valid story separate from a biblical version. We used to have a member here who would recite over and over that "IF a god existed then Intelligent Design was a possibility" something like that. He was playing this tape on a loop that would drive folks nuts. He went away, certain that he was speaking something profound, yet he never went any farther to do homework on his views or how they compared with either religion OR science.
Im mostly concerns about the simplistic views that, as said by Mencken, ..."are usually wrong"

. I am, I must assert, fully free of that concern. I do rest comfortably in the thought that, "If a God exists, and hes all loving, he will certainly forgive those of us who seek to know how he did it."
However, at this point, knowledge of his possible existence doesnt enter into my work at all, ever.







.

I give no credence to any man-made god.
I believe that we evolved from the primate family.
This is the most recent scientific finding on human evolution, and it's what I believe today.
https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn9989-timeline-human-evolution/

All my siblings are christians, and believe in the christian god. I think the appearance of the christian god was late in human history, and evolved from mythology of the times.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_in_comparative_mythology

Maybe you should give farmerman a chance to get to know you better.

I am really enjoying talking with you to get different perspectives...
I know it's like they have lost all meaning in what Jesus was saying and they have become an occult... They have brainwashed my brothers granddaughter {She is 13 now} and she has broken his wife's heart because she has shunned them... All in the name of religion... Tell me that's Godly? ...Maybe it is, and I am just too close and blind to see it...

Ya a lot of people get stuck in that book and they think that's all there is... Don't get me wrong... I use to love that book, {and the millions of people's opinions of it and the numerous versions of the bible} But until people learn that it was written by people, who have ancestors that preached hellfire and damnation, and a heaven, to scare people into being good, and to hide it from the destroyers in the world, to get the nuggets of truth to present time... Then they will be stuck in dogma, fairytales, and goldilock stories with little moral stories behind it... Sorry for the run on sentence...



I agree with you on this, but I am in the last quarter of my life and I believe It's time for me to get serious again and any support of my own personal ego, well... just get in the way... I believe that we are born with a very little ego, and as we grow it gets stronger and bigger and is a necessary element of survival to go to school, get job, raise a family... But I have done all that... It's time for me to prepare to meet my my maker and to approach him with a inflated ego is not the greatest of ideas...



I am sorry to hear this! You have a brilliant mind... I can't even imagine what you would be like if you learned to meditate... Being a scientist I would think you might be interested in experimenting with it... All it takes is a little of time...

I hate to see you give up on God because of a few ignorant {The freedom that man has to ignore God} people... Some of the greatest spiritual seeks and teachers of our time we're scientist... Swami Sri Yukteswar comes to mind... His guru persuaded him to write his one and only book {The holy Science}

Truth be told I am a heinz 57 when it comes to religions, Not a pure breed but a mutt so to speak... But if I had to only pick one it would be the massive work of Paramahansa Yogananda... The one and only real student of Swami Sri Yukteswar... His work is impressive to say the least... Out of all of it, I never once found a contradiction... I dare anyone to try and get back to me...

If you have time {and I don't know at what stage of life you are at} and decide to read the book, The holy Science... {a 100 page small book} Don't let it scare you off of Paramahansa Yogananda body of work, if and when you ever are ready to converse with our maker... the book "The holy Science" is quite mind boggling and a little hard to swallow when he goes into the ages and the evolution of mankind... I would have a hard time believing it myself if I hadn't digested most of Paramahansa Yogananda work... Once again his student... Nice talking with you my friend!

This takes time my good friend... I am trying!

I will be honest and say that I have only read a little of your writing thinking that you too are a religious nut job but after more reading I find you to be a deep thinker who seems to be very smart but I'm still thinking you may be a nut job.