65
   

Don't tell me there's no proof for evolution

 
 
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Jul, 2011 07:23 am
@farmerman,
Quote:
ANUS is good for a few laughs so Im a masochist I guess.
Ahh... you have more than that wrong with you Gomer....

Gomer the turd must seek help...for alcoholism, low self esteem, delusions of grandeur, and the use of a spell checker (but not bi-polar disorder) .
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Jul, 2011 07:24 am
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
I put spendi on Ignore last week; good riddence.
Yet another useless post .
hamilton
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Jul, 2011 07:52 am
@Ionus,
yet another falsity. nothing is useless.
one mans junk is another mans treasure. its my junk, and its sure as hell not my treasure, but still.
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Jul, 2011 07:56 am
@hamilton,
He brags about the people he has on ignore, declares some posters to have never been contradicted (how do you do this without reading every post ?) and offers very little apart from his opinion of someone else's personality .

He is a very good example of why we should die young and avoid senility .
hamilton
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Jul, 2011 07:59 am
@Ionus,
hmmm....
well, i dont read a whole topic when its so far into it as this one. ive kind of busy of late, so, i kind of half to skim. ive been trying to keep up with this all, though.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Jul, 2011 10:47 am
@hamilton,
If you want to keep up hammie you should try to bear in mind when reading this thread that the supposed problem is really secondary. It is a mere pretext for a show of strength. A showdown if you prefer. If the problem of evolution was to be solved, if such a ridiculous idea can be accepted, new and more difficult problems would arise.

Shows of strength and showdowns would simply transfer to the solution. Instead of the "what", "where" and "when" which our evolutionists on here, if I may call them that, are exclusively focussed upon as a means of pirouetting in short tutu their chubby egos, we would begin the long and far more dangerous journey into the "why", the "wherefore", the "whence" and the "how". The "how" being the only aspect science can even try to grapple with. Science has nothing to say, nor any hope of doing, on the other three. They are the realm of metaphysics and mysticism.

But you should also bear in mind that our "evolutionists" find even the slightest hints concerning the "how", the mechanics of evolution, sufficient to have them run for Mom's apron like startled chickens and there bury their little faces blubbering about that nasty man spendi.

And what they know about the easy stuff, the what, where and when, they have from some book or pamphlet they have read which they have latched onto in order to prove that Christian teaching on sexual morality is redundant which is an idea that came to them on some occasion early in life of the sort most of us have plenty of experience of. A virgin who has had her head fucked up by preachers and Bible thumpers. Evolution is simply the excuse for licentiousness as is fitting of course. And ideal for the task in hand seeing as how it can be explained to the average intelligence in a minute or two and then regurgitated with a patina of "brilliantine" words (see fm's post above) culled from similar sources as aforementioned so that it all seems so scientific to the unwary or the unarmed. Mr Huxley, Darwin's Bulldog, got it in a microsecond and exclaimed "why didn't I think of that!!!".

And it must be admitted that Christian sexual morality may very well be redundant and for other reasons than evolutionary considerations.

But our opponents are not up for making the case because they know deep down that the setting aside of Christian sexual morality was an individual thing and not to be thought of as appertaining to the masses. The masses are asserted to be stupid by these protagonists of mine. Often. They are elitists, which is incredible I know, but there it is.

Fundamentally they grossly underestimate the female sex operating in a world doing without Christian teaching on rumpy-pumpy.

According to Freud such patterns are set, indeed crystallised, in infancy.

At the showdown level most of them have thrown the towel in.
hamilton
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Jul, 2011 12:11 pm
@spendius,
alright. thanks, i guess.
0 Replies
 
FactsNOTfaith
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Aug, 2011 03:59 pm
@aperson,
I believe evolution is 99.? percent correct. I've seen a couple inherent flaws in scientists assumptions that they claim is fact, but, I will place my money on evolution every time.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Aug, 2011 04:51 pm
@FactsNOTfaith,
Scientists can only rely on the evidence they see; they are not always privy to all the information necessary to arrive at the correct conclusion, but it's still the best way to arrive at conclusions about our existence.

There's always that possibility that any errors made will be corrected in the future. Can't ask for more than that!
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Sep, 2011 04:04 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Interesting article on the latest finds in Africa.
Quote:
2-million-year-old fossils raise hope over 'missing link'
By Dan Vergano, USA TODAYUpdated 46m ago

A new analysis of bones that are nearly 2 million years old suggests they come from a species that may be a leading candidate as an ancient ancestor to humans, paleontologists reported Thursday.

Calling the ape-like species Australopithecus sediba, South African team leader Lee Berger of the University of the Witwatersrand in Johannesburg suggests that many "human" traits — long thumbs, upright walking, wide hips — evolved from this vanished species. This may represent "the best candidate for the ancestor" to people as any other species considered a front-runner to date, Berger says.
Africa is the birthplace of humanity, where Australopithecine ("southern ape") precursors to humans and modern apes originated over several million years, as shown by fossils and genetic evidence. The South African fossils are among the best-preserved examples.
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Sep, 2011 04:06 pm
@cicerone imposter,
I heard it on NPR about 2 hours ago and I would like to know more.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Sep, 2011 04:39 pm
@reasoning logic,
Surely not rl. What do you want to know more about that for? It's kiddiewinks writing. Aimed at kiddiewinks.
hamilton
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Sep, 2011 04:40 pm
@spendius,
Hey! I resent and represent that comment! even if it is true...
0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Sep, 2011 05:59 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
It's kiddiewinks writing.


Did you misunderstand that I said I heard it? I did not read it!

What is it that you know about it? Did you even consider the info shared or do you all ready hold an empirical understanding of reality?
0 Replies
 
Nick W
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Jan, 2012 02:28 pm
charles darwin, right before he died, denounced the theory of evolution
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Jan, 2012 02:46 pm
@Nick W,
Thanks for a good laugh and, nice try, but what have you been smoking?
0 Replies
 
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Jan, 2012 02:58 pm
@Nick W,
Nick W wrote:

charles darwin, right before he died, denounced the theory of evolution
His children and historians remember it differently... His last words were to his family, telling Emma "I am not the least afraid of death – Remember what a good wife you have been to me – Tell all my children to remember how good they have been to me", then while she rested, he repeatedly told Henrietta and Francis "It's almost worth while to be sick to be nursed by you".
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Mon 2 Jan, 2012 06:03 pm
@rosborne979,
It sounds as if CD saw people in terms of their use to him.
failures art
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Jan, 2012 11:25 pm
Inside Higher Ed wrote:
Should We Challenge Student Beliefs?
July 19, 2011 - 3:00am
By Peter Boghossian

Until two weeks ago, I had been laboring under the naïve assumption that one of the primary goals of every academic was to change students’ beliefs when they were based on inaccurate information. I was awakened from this dogmatic slumber at an interdisciplinary faculty meeting by colleagues who reacted with dismay to my confession that I had tried and failed to disabuse one of my students of Creationist beliefs.

The conversation became more heated when I read to the group what the student had written on her final exam: "I wrote what I had to ‘agree’ with what was said in class, but in truth I believe ABSOLUTELY that there is an amazing, savior GOD, who created the universe, lives among us, and loves us more than anything. That is my ABSOLUTE, and no amount of ‘philosophy’ will change that."

Two of my colleagues, one in the language arts and one in psychology, argued that it was an inappropriate use of my authority to attempt to change this student’s belief; rather, my role should have been to provide her with data so that she could make better decisions.

I countered that both the process that allows one to arrive at Creationist conclusions, and the conclusions themselves, are completely divorced from reality, and that my role was not simply to provide evidence and counterexamples and hope for the best, but to help her overcome a false belief and supplant it with a true one.

Their unanimous reaction to this declaration temporarily made me question one of my basic assumptions about the responsibilities of college educators: Should professors attempt to change students’ beliefs by consistently challenging false beliefs with facts?

I believe that this is exactly what our role should be. My colleagues’ intense, unexpected, yet understandable reaction to my failed attempt change the mind of a student, I believe, fundamentally misconstrues what the role of educators should be. I believe our role as educators should be to teach students not just factual data, but the importance of critically examining beliefs by exposing them to facts, and then revising cherished notions when confronted with reliable but discomforting evidence.

In every discipline there are certain signature pieces of information that need to be known in order for students to have a basic familiarity with the subject matter. In math, for example, one needs to understand the role of the plus sign in order to do basic math; in history one needs to understand the calendar system so that events can be situated on a timeline; in music one needs to understand “melody,” “harmony,” and “rhythm” so that pieces can be framed, understood and then commented upon, etc. Within my discipline, philosophy, students need a rudimentary understanding of key thinkers like Plato and Aristotle, and also a basic understanding of reliable methods for parsing the truth.

There’s a fundamental difference between knowing and believing. Belief, as the American philosopher William James defines it, is the willingness to act upon the promise of the truth of one’s beliefs. Merely knowing signature pieces of information is insufficient. One must believe, for example, that the plus sign is actually used to add numbers.

This is true in all disciplines. If one is teaching civil engineering, for example, it is not enough that students merely know how much pressure various metals can withstand; students must cross the boundary between knowledge and belief so that when they begin their professions and actually design and build bridges, they will act upon their beliefs. One can know that steel is superior to balsa wood in the construction of suspension bridges, but without belief the relationship between knowledge and action cannot be cemented.

Furthermore, within each particular course there are also signature pieces of information that students need to understand. For example, I teach a class entitled “Science and Pseudoscience” (the student who wrote the above comments on her exam was enrolled in this class). In Science and Pseudoscience, students need to understand a basic mechanism, rooted in the scientific method, by which they can reliably discern true empirical claims from false empirical claims.

As expected, we discuss a wide array of both scientific and pseudoscientific topics, including astrology, homeopathy, chelation therapy, and vaccinations. It is not enough for my students to know that vaccinations do not cause autism; they must also believe this and then eventually act accordingly. (In this case, action consists of not being afraid of vaccinating their children out of fear that they could cause their children to become autistic).

The primary goal of every academic should be to bring students’ beliefs into lawful alignment with reality. An example from critical thinking may help to make this clear: there are certain ways of making decisions that are superior to other ways of making decisions. Drawing from our civil engineering example above, if I want to figure out how far to dig into the earth when laying a foundation for a bridge, a bad way to do this would be to flip a coin: heads it’s 50 meters and tails it’s 200. Rather, one should act upon the best available evidence and make a rational, informed decision that should then guide one’s actions. It is not enough to merely present students with better ways of making educated, rational decisions. It is an indispensable part of the educational process that students then leave the learning environment and actually build reliable, practical bridges in which travelers can literally trust their lives.

Perhaps the confusion over the role of the educator in regard to student beliefs stems from the conflation of facts and values. Perhaps this view of the classroom as a “belief-mill” reeks of a type of value-imperialism that many liberal (and some conservative) academicians find repugnant. The rejection of the view of the academician as belief maker may thus be dismissed on ideological as opposed to factual or pedagogical grounds.

There is an incommensurable gulf between attempting to change students’ values and attempting to help students align their beliefs with reality. Some values, like matters of taste, have a fundamentally internal, subjective component. Facts relate to the objective status of things. Belief that homosexuals should be allowed to marry, for example, is a moral belief upon which even biological facts about what causes homosexuality may have little effect.

Belief that the age of the earth is closer to 4.5 billion years, not 6,000 years, is a true, empirical belief. The latter does not fall under the category of a matter of taste, instinct, revelation or value, and is true independent of subjective considerations.

With regard to our roles as educators, we should not be seeking to convert students’ moral beliefs, but we should, and we are obligated to, help students lend their beliefs to true propositions and repudiate false ones. A teacher is obligated to use cognitive dissonance to inspire students to shape a more reliable picture of reality that informs their sense of cause and effect.
The alternative would be mass customization of teaching in a way that supports only the beliefs each student brings to our classrooms. Such a regime would leave many students in the dark, believing knowledge need not be based on facts. Bridges would collapse. Those inclined to escape their ignorance might not believe it important enough to do so.

Peter Boghossian is a philosophy instructor at Portland State University.

Source: here

A
R
T
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Tue 3 Jan, 2012 05:18 am
@failures art,
Shouldn't A2K have the benefit of the arguments of the dismayed colleagues rather than just the beliefs of the odd man out?

It is invalid to compare simple facts about bridge engineering and conventions such as a + sign with beliefs which impinge on social relations and personal happiness.

What's the meaning of meaning?

Presumably the student comes from a religious background. What is an educator doing trying to set her at odds with that background with which she has to live for a lot longer and more intimately than is the case in his classroom.

Mr Boghossian should be required to study philosophy properly before being allowed to teach the subject to young people who he knows very little about.
 

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