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If there Is A Draft....

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Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Nov, 2006 11:30 am
LoneStarMadam wrote:
Phoenix32890 wrote:
Slavery is slavery, whether it is applied to some or all citizens. IMO, conscription is evil and unconscionable.

Is slaveey a paid compensation career?


If you were pulled out of the fields and put in the kitchen in the big house where you got a warm bed and plenty to eat would you no longer feel like a slave?
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Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Nov, 2006 11:31 am
Bi-Polar Bear wrote:
LoneStarMadam wrote:
Phoenix32890 wrote:
Slavery is slavery, whether it is applied to some or all citizens. IMO, conscription is evil and unconscionable.

Is slaveey a paid compensation career?


If you were pulled out of the fields and put in the kitchen in the big house where you got a warm bed and plenty to eat would you no longer feel like a slave?


No, would you???? :wink:
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Nov, 2006 11:32 am
dyslexia wrote:
I enlisted.


Me, too . . . dumb, huh?
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snood
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Nov, 2006 11:33 am
Phoenix32890 wrote:
I don't care if the government gave draftees a million bucks a year. If the person did not join up of his own free will, it is still slavery, or possibly involuntary servitude. I think that you are hung up on the semantics.


I think that comparing the draft to slavery is hysterical hyperbole.
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LoneStarMadam
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Nov, 2006 11:34 am
Bi-Polar Bear wrote:
except for bush and company. them I'd like to see in the desert at 140 degrees with full packs in the midst of combat. Might make 'em think. but I doubt it.


Couldn't that be said for any & all that have taken us to war? If you'll look back, very few presidents with combat experience have taken us to war. War vets are getting very scarace & just about any prez we have will not have combat experience. Although in a few years, that will change.
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LoneStarMadam
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Nov, 2006 11:35 am
Phoenix32890 wrote:
I don't care if the government gave draftees a million bucks a year. If the person did not join up of his own free will, it is still slavery, or possibly involuntary servitude. I think that you are hung up on the semantics.

I think you are trying to change the topic.
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Nov, 2006 11:36 am
snood wrote:
Phoenix32890 wrote:
I don't care if the government gave draftees a million bucks a year. If the person did not join up of his own free will, it is still slavery, or possibly involuntary servitude. I think that you are hung up on the semantics.


I think that comparing the draft to slavery is hysterical hyperbole.


I think you should go back to the recent thread on the draft (didn't you start that?), and read Thomas' arguments again. Although i don't necessarily agree that conscription is unconscionable, i do agree that it can reasonably be described as involuntary servitude. I do think it can be justified, however, in very narrowly-defined and extraordinary circumstances.
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LoneStarMadam
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Nov, 2006 11:37 am
snood wrote:
Phoenix32890 wrote:
I don't care if the government gave draftees a million bucks a year. If the person did not join up of his own free will, it is still slavery, or possibly involuntary servitude. I think that you are hung up on the semantics.


I think that comparing the draft to slavery is hysterical hyperbole.


Exactly.
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dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Nov, 2006 11:37 am
Setanta wrote:
dyslexia wrote:
I enlisted.


Me, too . . . dumb, huh?

very.
0 Replies
 
Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Nov, 2006 11:37 am
snood wrote:
Phoenix32890 wrote:
I don't care if the government gave draftees a million bucks a year. If the person did not join up of his own free will, it is still slavery, or possibly involuntary servitude. I think that you are hung up on the semantics.


I think that comparing the draft to slavery is hysterical hyperbole.


Snood. I am not hysterical. I am simply making a point. Slaves did jobs that they were forced to do, and a refusal to comply could have had serious, and even fatal consequences. Conscripts would be in the exact same position.
0 Replies
 
LoneStarMadam
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Nov, 2006 11:38 am
Setanta wrote:
snood wrote:
Phoenix32890 wrote:
I don't care if the government gave draftees a million bucks a year. If the person did not join up of his own free will, it is still slavery, or possibly involuntary servitude. I think that you are hung up on the semantics.


I think that comparing the draft to slavery is hysterical hyperbole.


I think you should go back to the recent thread on the draft (didn't you start that?), and read Thomas' arguments again. Although i don't necessarily agree that conscription is unconscionable, i do agree that it can reasonably be described as involuntary servitude. I do think it can be justified, however, in very narrowly-defined and extraordinary circumstances.


Jury duty is involuntary as well, shold that be stopped?
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Nov, 2006 11:39 am
LoneStarMadam wrote:
Jury duty is involuntary as well, shold that be stopped?


No, of course not, don't be silly. Compelling state interest, at least equivalent to national defense.
0 Replies
 
Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Nov, 2006 11:50 am
Setanta wrote:
I think you should go back to the recent thread on the draft (didn't you start that?), and read Thomas' arguments again. Although i don't necessarily agree that conscription is unconscionable, i do agree that it can reasonably be described as involuntary servitude. I do think it can be justified, however, in very narrowly-defined and extraordinary circumstances.


I can agree with that. If we were ever invaded, I would then think that a draft might be a necessity. I also think that that were to pass, plenty of people would join up on their own. Damn, I would be out there doing what I could, if the terrorists were on my doorstep.

I remember during WWII, that many people who were not in the military helped out in the war effort. Our house backed up to a military base. Every night the women would bring out some goodies to the guys who were patrolling the area, and hand it to them through the fence.

My dad, who was over a certain age, and a father, was not eligible for the draft. He joined the Civil Patrol Corps, which performed some sort of security work on the home front. I was too young to understand exactly what he did, but I have a picture of him marching in a parade, in his uniform, with his buddies.
0 Replies
 
LoneStarMadam
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Nov, 2006 11:50 am
Setanta wrote:
LoneStarMadam wrote:
Jury duty is involuntary as well, shold that be stopped?


No, of course not, don't be silly. Compelling state interest, at least equivalent to national defense.


There are many things that we are forcedto do that many don't agree with, but, compelling state interest makes it necessary.
Jury duty is necessary, just as a military is, a draft might be necessary if there aren't enough volunteers. However, Rangels idea for a draft covers more than the military, community service, peace corp, several different ways. Now that could get hairy if the wrong people are put in charge of a draft. A mini UN. Shocked
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snood
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Nov, 2006 11:50 am
Phoenix32890 wrote:
snood wrote:
Phoenix32890 wrote:
I don't care if the government gave draftees a million bucks a year. If the person did not join up of his own free will, it is still slavery, or possibly involuntary servitude. I think that you are hung up on the semantics.


I think that comparing the draft to slavery is hysterical hyperbole.


Snood. I am not hysterical. I am simply making a point. Slaves did jobs that they were forced to do, and a refusal to comply could have had serious, and even fatal consequences. Conscripts would be in the exact same position.


Well I think it might make a point with a flourish, but soldiers ain't slaves, and to compare the two is over the top, IMO.
0 Replies
 
old europe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Nov, 2006 11:52 am
Phoenix32890 wrote:
snood wrote:
Phoenix32890 wrote:
I don't care if the government gave draftees a million bucks a year. If the person did not join up of his own free will, it is still slavery, or possibly involuntary servitude. I think that you are hung up on the semantics.


I think that comparing the draft to slavery is hysterical hyperbole.


Snood. I am not hysterical. I am simply making a point. Slaves did jobs that they were forced to do, and a refusal to comply could have had serious, and even fatal consequences. Conscripts would be in the exact same position.


Yes. Slaves. And conscripts. And taxpayers, of course.
0 Replies
 
LoneStarMadam
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Nov, 2006 11:52 am
So, what about women being dratfed if there is a draft?
0 Replies
 
Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Nov, 2006 11:54 am
Snood- Soldiers are not slaves, if they joined up of their own free will. If they are forced to join, IMO, they are.

This is why when anyone suggests that every young person has to give a year or two for some humanitarian project, I am dead set against the idea. That is not that I don't think that a year or two in the Peace Corps or the like might not be a wonderful experience for a young person, before they embark on their careers. I do. It is the aspect of coercion to which I object.
0 Replies
 
Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Nov, 2006 11:56 am
LoneStarMadam wrote:
So, what about women being dratfed if there is a draft?


If there ever is a draft, IMO, all qualified citizens should be included, no matter what their gender.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Nov, 2006 11:56 am
Phoenix32890 wrote:
Snood- Soldiers are not slaves, if they joined up of their own free will. If they are forced to join, IMO, they are.

This is why when anyone suggests that every young person has to give a year or two for some humanitarian project, I am dead set against the idea. That is not that I don't think that a year or two in the Peace Corps or the like might not be a wonderful experience for a young person, before they embark on their careers. I do. It is the aspect of coercion to which I object.


Well mebbe the comparison between the military and slavery doesn't sit well with me being black and a soldier - but we can agree to disagree about the two things being equivalent.
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