Who Lost Iraq?

So?

What do we do now Mac?

Assuming your assertion analysis is correct I mean. Blame Adam and Eve I suppose is the best place to start. The Fall they call it.

Impeach Mr Bush as an example, and as a sign that we mean to change our ways.

Anyone who has ever studied the history of American diplomacy, especially military diplomacy, knows that you might start in a war with certain things on your mind as a purpose of what you are doing, but in the end, you found yourself fighting for entirely different things that you had never thought of before. In other words, war has a momentum of its own and it carries you away from all thoughtful intentions when you get into it.

An over-arching trust in military strength, or more to my point, in modern military/information technologies, might well serve as something of an assumption of certain victory and of the progress of a planned conflict to move forward with the ease and predictability of a power point presentation.

BAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) -- Two mortar rounds hit a U.S. military post in eastern Baghdad on Sunday, setting it on fire, police and witnesses said. A large cloud of black smoke was seen rising above Baladiyat, a predominantly Shiite area of capital, at about 3 p.m.

Lt. Col. Scott Bleichwehl, a U.S. military spokesman, confirmed that "indirect fire rounds" had landed in the vicinity of the coalition forward operating base, but he refused to describe the results of the attack, saying that would allow "the enemy" to assess its effectiveness.

He said the strike was launched from just outside nearby Sadr City, the Shiite slum where more than 200 people were killed on Thursday in an attack by Sunni Arab insurgents using car bombs and mortars.

No casualties were reported by Bleichwehl or by police Capt. Mohammed Abdul-Ghani, who said Iraqi security forces didn't have access to the U.S. military post.

Mortars Set Fire to U.S. Base in Iraq

Quote:

BAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) -- Two mortar rounds hit a U.S. military post in eastern Baghdad on Sunday, setting it on fire, police and witnesses said. A large cloud of black smoke was seen rising above Baladiyat, a predominantly Shiite area of capital, at about 3 p.m.

Lt. Col. Scott Bleichwehl, a U.S. military spokesman, confirmed that "indirect fire rounds" had landed in the vicinity of the coalition forward operating base, but he refused to describe the results of the attack, saying that would allow "the enemy" to assess its effectiveness.

He said the strike was launched from just outside nearby Sadr City, the Shiite slum where more than 200 people were killed on Thursday in an attack by Sunni Arab insurgents using car bombs and mortars.

No casualties were reported by Bleichwehl or by police Capt. Mohammed Abdul-Ghani, who said Iraqi security forces didn't have access to the U.S. military post.

WWII veterans were fighting an invader of Poland; you are defending an invader of Iraq.

Everyone is always in favour of general economy and particular expenditure.

We best avoid wars by taking even physical action to stop small ones.

Some war, the invasion of a weakened, ill-equipped and impoverished country.

A compelling argument Ricks makes in Fiasco is that military planners have desperately sought, since viet nam, to avoid engagement in another insurgency conflict. As a consequence, the study of and planning for that eventuality fell far back in priorities over the last few decades.

revel wrote:

Mortars Set Fire to U.S. Base in Iraq

Quote:

BAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) -- Two mortar rounds hit a U.S. military post in eastern Baghdad on Sunday, setting it on fire, police and witnesses said. A large cloud of black smoke was seen rising above Baladiyat, a predominantly Shiite area of capital, at about 3 p.m.

Lt. Col. Scott Bleichwehl, a U.S. military spokesman, confirmed that "indirect fire rounds" had landed in the vicinity of the coalition forward operating base, but he refused to describe the results of the attack, saying that would allow "the enemy" to assess its effectiveness.

He said the strike was launched from just outside nearby Sadr City, the Shiite slum where more than 200 people were killed on Thursday in an attack by Sunni Arab insurgents using car bombs and mortars.

No casualties were reported by Bleichwehl or by police Capt. Mohammed Abdul-Ghani, who said Iraqi security forces didn't have access to the U.S. military post.

I am really thrilled with your post, revel. Wow. A U.S. installation was shot at by a mortar round from the enemy. This must be THE VERY FIRST TIME this has happened!

I expect that revel will not let us down when we fire back, giving us the latest Iraqui body count, imperialistic oil-gluttonist capitalist pigs that we Americans are.

The seasoned WWII veterans must be shaking their heads in disbelief at the way some are reacting to the events of this war, while the deceased veterans turn over in their graves.

Nov 27 (Reuters) - Following are security developments in Iraq as of 1130 GMT on Monday.

Asterisk denotes a new or updated item.

* TAL AFAR - Clashes erupted between gunmen and police during the night, killing three policemen and one gunman in Tal Afar, about 420 km (260 miles) north of Baghdad, police said.

* BAGHDAD - The bodies of five people were found with gunshot wounds and bearing signs of torture just north of Baghdad, an Interior Ministry source said.

* BAIJI - A police major was killed while he was trying to dismantle a roadside bomb in the oil refinery city of Baiji, 180 km (112 miles) north of Baghdad, police said.

* BAGHDAD - Gunmen attacked a Baghdad municipal office in central Baghdad and killed a guard and abducted three others, an Interior Ministry source said.

BAGHDAD - The U.S. military said three of its soldiers were killed and two others wounded by insurgents in Baghdad on Sunday.

RAMADI - U.S. forces killed two suspected insurgents on Sunday after observing them loading weapons from a cache into a vehicle in the insurgent stronghold city of Ramadi, 110 km (70 miles) west of Baghdad, the U.S. military said.

DUJAIL - Gunmen attacked a checkpoint near Dujail, 90 km (55 miles) north of Baghdad, and kidnapped eight policemen, police said. A ninth policeman was wounded but managed to escape. One policeman was killed and another wounded when their patrol arrived at the scene and was ambushed.

RAMADI - The U.S. military said four Iraqi civilians were wounded, including three boys aged 6, 13 and 16, when mortar bombs fired by U.S. forces against insurgents hit them. The wounds were not life-threatening, a statement said.

US forces say they have killed 22 militants in renewed violence in Iraq despite a curfew imposed on the capital in response to recent killings.
US forces say they killed 10 insurgents in a raid on a bomb-making facility north of Baghdad and 12 in a convoy.

The bodies of 21 Iraqi villagers have been discovered north-east of Baghdad in Diyala province.

President Jalal Talabani has had to postpone a much-anticipated trip to Iran, as Baghdad's airport is closed.

Mr Talabani had been due to meet Iran President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad for talks on Iraq's security situation.

An Iranian news agency is now reporting that he will leave Baghdad on Sunday, provided the airport reopens.

Separately, US Vice-President Dick Cheney has arrived in the Saudi capital, Riyadh, for talks with King Abdullah on the situation in the Middle East, particularly Iraq.

Violence

Police in Iraq say gunmen raided the homes of two Shia families, dragged out 21 males and shot them dead.

The bodies were found early on Saturday.

It is thought the youngest victim was a 12-year-old boy.

The attack took place in a village 80km (50 miles) north-east of Baghdad.

The US military says its forces killed 22 insurgents in clashes to the north of Baghdad.

Ten died in a raid on a bomb-making factory in the town of Taji.

A teenage boy was also killed in the crossfire, and a pregnant woman was wounded, US forces say.

The military said it discovered caches of rocket-propelled grenades, machine guns, pipe bombs and anti-aircraft weapons.

It says the weapons were later destroyed in an air strike.

In another incident, US forces said they had killed 12 insurgents in a convoy of cars that ignored warning shots.

One of the dead men was wanted for making car bombs, the military said.

The war in Iraq has now lasted longer than the U.S. involvement in the war that President Bush's father fought in, World War II.

As of Sunday, the conflict in Iraq has raged for three years and just over eight months.

Only the Vietnam War (eight years, five months), the Revolutionary War (six years, nine months), and the Civil War (four years), have engaged America longer.

Fighting in Afghanistan, which may or may not be a full-fledged war depending on who is keeping track, has gone on for five years, one month. It continues as the ousted Taliban resurges and the central government is challenged.

The seasoned WWII veterans must be shaking their heads in disbelief at the way some are reacting to the events of this war, while the deceased veterans turn over in their graves.

Bernie wrote-

Quote:

A compelling argument Ricks makes in Fiasco is that military planners have desperately sought, since viet nam, to avoid engagement in another insurgency conflict. As a consequence, the study of and planning for that eventuality fell far back in priorities over the last few decades.

One would assume a potential enemy would have noticed and thus been emboldened.

Under the circumstances described what exactly was the Army for?

As a consequence, the study of and planning for that eventuality fell far back in priorities over the last few decades.

Bernie-

I understood that the occupation of Kuwait was undertaken on the perception that the US would do nothing. The theory here was that it was due to something Mrs Thatcher said to Mr Bush Snr, who she happened to be meeting when the news of that invasion came over the wires, which rather bluntly called into question his masculinity as compared to hers with the Falkland Islands fiasco, and which stirred him into action. It was well reported here.

At that time Saddam Hussein said that it was "The Mother of all Battles."

The assumption in sentence one has been a facet of military thinking since military thinking began.

If Mr Ricks (your quote) was correct with the statement that-

Quote:
As a consequence, the study of and planning for that eventuality fell far back in priorities over the last few decades.

everybody would have noticed.

Didn't a similar situation occur when the American continent was taken over by Europeans?

I was merely commenting on Mr Ricks's statement. Whether the planners of 9/11 knew about that weakness he points to (not me) is hardly disputable.

The waters of Islamic military planning are far too murky for us simple souls to see into.

Mr Ricks said that the US dropped their guard and everybody knows what happens when that easy option is taken.

I think you might be better focussing on Pakistan rather than the Russians. Anything which our enemies can claim as a great victory will undermine the wobbling Government there.

It has nothing to do with party politics. The US can only afford isolationism if it is self sufficient. The left here started a Fortress Britain campaign a few years back and were kicked out of the stadium.

Your complacency astounds me.