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Who Lost Iraq?

 
 
slkshock7
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Nov, 2006 08:00 am
Quote:
The protagonists divide into three broad groups.

The Bush dead-enders. Although dwindling in number, President Bush's defenders will ascribe failure in Iraq to a loss of nerve, blaming media bias and liberal defeatists for sowing the erroneous impression that the war has become unwinnable. Bush loyalists will portray opposition to the war as tantamount to betraying the troops. Count on them to appropriate Ronald Reagan's description of Vietnam as "an honorable cause." Updating the "stab in the back" thesis, they will claim that a collapse of will on the home front snatched defeat from the jaws of victory in Baghdad as surely as it did in Saigon.

The buck-stops-at-the-top camp. Adherents of this second view are currently in the ascendant, attributing the troubles roiling Iraq to massive incompetence in the Bush administration. In a war notable for an absence of accountability, demands for fixing accountability are becoming increasingly insistent. Parties eager to divert attention from their own culpability are pointing fingers. Senior military officers target Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld. Congressional Democrats who voted for the war and neoconservatives direct their fire against Rumsfeld and Bush. The theme common to all of these finger-pointers: Don't blame us; the Bush team's stupidity, stubbornness and internal dysfunction doomed the American effort.

The conspiracy theorists. Even before the United States invaded Iraq, critics on the far left and far right charged that powerful groups operating behind the scenes were promoting war for their own nefarious purposes. Big Oil, Halliburton, the military-industrial complex and Protestant evangelicals said to be keen on defending Israel all came in for criticism and even grassy-knoll-style paranoia.


Of course, it's all America's fault....both for getting us into this fight and then bumbling the fight once we were engaged. No credit at all should be given the terrorists and insurgents who adroitly used the world media, America's political process, and our own squeamishness to "win the war".

No one person lost the war. Muslim fundamentalists won it by "staying the course" longer than America could.

Placing the blame serves no purpose other than a self-serving whitewash feeling that, at least it wasn't my fault.

If it is truly lost, the key point to remember is that America, as a nation, lost it......and I can only hope that the implications are as benign as those of Vietnam. Like after Vietnam, we will mourn the loss of thousands of soldiers (and civilians as well) who died for nothing. Iraq will fall into civil war but, after much killing of fellow Iraqis, eventually beat themselves into some fashion of government, or group of separate nations, thus allowing the bloodshed to stop. And all will be good and forgotten a few decades later.

Unfortunately, the more likely outcome is that terrorists will be emboldened by the defeat of Ameria. The impression will be reinforced that America (and its interests) can be defeated by persistent small attacks regularly conducted over a period of three or less years. Bin Laden will have been proven corrrect...America is a paper tiger. Bloody their nose a few times and they will go home. Terrorism will have proven itself as a successful political strategy for those brutal enough to execute it. New groups with their own personal vendetta against the US will attempt and succeed with the same tactics. The world will change once again, with the nations, even superpowers, impotent to influence events outside their own territorial boundaries.
0 Replies
 
LoneStarMadam
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Nov, 2006 08:50 am
Admittedly we have not fought this war with all of our might, as we should, IMO, however, WE HAVE NOT LOST THIS WAR. If we 'cut & run", not only will it be seen as another loss for America (Thanks John Murtha Rolling Eyes ) but those boys & girls in the burkas & baggy pants/dresses will follow our guys & gals home. You can count on that.
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Nov, 2006 08:52 am
McG,

Why is it OK to do something when no one is looking, that it is not OK to do when they are looking?

"Nobody will catch me, so I can do what I want."

Criminal thinking error.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Nov, 2006 10:49 am
http://cagle.msnbc.com/working/061114/asay.gif
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Nov, 2006 10:51 am
Except, the Jihadis weren't there until we f*cked the place up.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
LoneStarMadam
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Nov, 2006 11:20 am
What about Afghanistan?
Then too, Saddam was a "jihad" all on his own.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Nov, 2006 11:27 am
LoneStarMadam wrote:
What about Afghanistan?
Then too, Saddam was a "jihad" all on his own.


Sure, if you want words to mean what they don't mean.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Nov, 2006 11:27 am
Only if you use the word 'jihad' to mean something different than it actually means.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Nov, 2006 11:32 am
McGentrix wrote:
http://cagle.msnbc.com/working/061114/asay.gif


so chemical warfare is okay for us? Laughing
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Nov, 2006 11:34 am
cyclo
I suspected it all along. We are the same person.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Nov, 2006 11:39 am
I don't have a problem with that - I hear you are doing quite well these days up in NY

Cycloptichorn Very Happy
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Nov, 2006 11:58 am
LoneStarMadam wrote:
Admittedly we have not fought this war with all of our might, as we should, IMO, however, WE HAVE NOT LOST THIS WAR. If we 'cut & run", not only will it be seen as another loss for America (Thanks John Murtha Rolling Eyes ) but those boys & girls in the burkas & baggy pants/dresses will follow our guys & gals home. You can count on that.


If if weren't for the recent election, notions such as these would be depressing. I've resisted repeating the "Bush Dead-ender" phrase, but goddamn it fits.

It does not seem to matter what consequences evolve from Bush policy and "leadership" or what information comes to light, faith remains secured with concrete blocks and even the slightest honest accountability denied.

After the 2004 election, Cheney said, re Iraq and all else, that the election provided the measure of accountability. There's some sense, though not much, to such a claim. But of course it no longer holds true for Bush dead-enders.

Blaming Murtha, blaming the press...what a chickenshit escape from honesty and integrity these are.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Nov, 2006 12:01 pm
Don't forget to blame the terrorists in your zeal to throw blame around Blatham. It's far too easy to just yell "It's Bush's fault!" and hide behind that manttra.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Nov, 2006 12:01 pm
McGentrix wrote:
Don't forget to blame the terrorists in your zeal to throw blame around Blatham. It's far too easy to just yell "It's Bush's fault!" and hide behind that manttra.


Wait, we're blaming the enemy for fighting us - and winning?

How does that make sense?

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Nov, 2006 12:03 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
I don't have a problem with that - I hear you are doing quite well these days up in NY

Cycloptichorn Very Happy


With you there in Berkely and me in Manhattan, I feel like half a set of bookends.

I really love this city. Wasn't at all sure I would. People here are simply marvellous.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Nov, 2006 12:08 pm
McGentrix wrote:
Don't forget to blame the terrorists in your zeal to throw blame around Blatham. It's far too easy to just yell "It's Bush's fault!" and hide behind that manttra.


That aspect is the given, McG, like a fire or a flood or a hurricane. How that given is responded to, and why such a response is formulated, is the measure of the responsible folks' competence, integrity, honesty, and effectiveness.
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Nov, 2006 12:10 pm
McGentrix wrote:
Don't forget to blame the terrorists in your zeal to throw blame around Blatham. It's far too easy to just yell "It's Bush's fault!" and hide behind that manttra.


The terrorists made us invade Iraq?
0 Replies
 
LoneStarMadam
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Nov, 2006 12:12 pm
blatham wrote:
LoneStarMadam wrote:
Admittedly we have not fought this war with all of our might, as we should, IMO, however, WE HAVE NOT LOST THIS WAR. If we 'cut & run", not only will it be seen as another loss for America (Thanks John Murtha Rolling Eyes ) but those boys & girls in the burkas & baggy pants/dresses will follow our guys & gals home. You can count on that.


If if weren't for the recent election, notions such as these would be depressing. I've resisted repeating the "Bush Dead-ender" phrase, but goddamn it fits.

It does not seem to matter what consequences evolve from Bush policy and "leadership" or what information comes to light, faith remains secured with concrete blocks and even the slightest honest accountability denied.

After the 2004 election, Cheney said, re Iraq and all else, that the election provided the measure of accountability. There's some sense, though not much, to such a claim. But of course it no longer holds true for Bush dead-enders.

Blaming Murtha, blaming the press...what a chickenshit escape from honesty and integrity these are.

& the recent elections will change the policy in Iraq, how? George Bush is still C-n-C & he has the Constitutional duty to direct our military & protect this country the way he sees fit. Congress could cut the $$ off IF they are really serious. Congress has not "declared war" since WWII, they give the president (whoever happens to be in office) carte blanc to go full speed, then when that same congress deems that things aren't going well,(especially near an election), they screech & whine & USE our military for political gain. It's sickening. It's a shame that peple forget.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Nov, 2006 12:19 pm
FreeDuck wrote:
McGentrix wrote:
Don't forget to blame the terrorists in your zeal to throw blame around Blatham. It's far too easy to just yell "It's Bush's fault!" and hide behind that manttra.


The terrorists made us invade Iraq?


Pretty much, yeah.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Nov, 2006 12:53 pm
Quote:
he has the Constitutional duty to direct our military & protect this country the way he sees fit.


I'm sorry, he does not have this duty under the constituion.

The Prez is CIC of the armed forces, yes, but the responsibilities for protecting the country lie equally with the different branches of gov't. The President's prime responsibility is to protect the Constitution of the United States. This is in fact the oath he takes upon entering the office.

Congress has as much say about our foriegn affairs as the Prez, in the end; they control every method of implementing foreign policy, as Bush is going to find out soon.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
 

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