Who Lost Iraq?

Quote:

he has the Constitutional duty to direct our military & protect this country the way he sees fit.

I'm sorry, he does not have this duty under the constituion.

The Prez is CIC of the armed forces, yes, but the responsibilities for protecting the country lie equally with the different branches of gov't. The President's prime responsibility is to protect the Constitution of the United States. This is in fact the oath he takes upon entering the office.

Congress has as much say about our foriegn affairs as the Prez, in the end; they control every method of implementing foreign policy, as Bush is going to find out soon.

Cycloptichorn

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Quote:

he has the Constitutional duty to direct our military & protect this country the way he sees fit.

I'm sorry, he does not have this duty under the constituion.

The Prez is CIC of the armed forces, yes, but the responsibilities for protecting the country lie equally with the different branches of gov't. The President's prime responsibility is to protect the Constitution of the United States. This is in fact the oath he takes upon entering the office.

Congress has as much say about our foriegn affairs as the Prez, in the end; they control every method of implementing foreign policy, as Bush is going to find out soon.

Cycloptichorn

Congress ceded their war powers to every president since WWII. That leaves the C-n-C in charge.
The presidents constitutional duty is to protect the citizens of this country.

LoneStarMadam wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Quote:

he has the Constitutional duty to direct our military & protect this country the way he sees fit.

I'm sorry, he does not have this duty under the constituion.

The Prez is CIC of the armed forces, yes, but the responsibilities for protecting the country lie equally with the different branches of gov't. The President's prime responsibility is to protect the Constitution of the United States. This is in fact the oath he takes upon entering the office.

Congress has as much say about our foriegn affairs as the Prez, in the end; they control every method of implementing foreign policy, as Bush is going to find out soon.

Cycloptichorn

Congress ceded their war powers to every president since WWII. That leaves the C-n-C in charge.
The presidents constitutional duty is to protect the citizens of this country.

Which part of the Constitution says this, exactly?

Cycloptichorn

I, for one, am really impressed with LoneStarMadam incredible knowledge of constitutional law. I assume everyone here has the same feeling

U.S. Constitution: Article II

Article Text | Annotations

Article. II. [ Annotations ]

Section 1.

The executive Power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America. He shall hold his Office during the Term of four Years, and, together with the Vice President, chosen for the same Term, be elected, as follows:

Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors, equal to the whole Number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress: but no Senator or Representative, or Person holding an Office of Trust or Profit under the United States, shall be appointed an Elector.

The Electors shall meet in their respective States, and vote by Ballot for two Persons, of whom one at least shall not be an Inhabitant of the same State with themselves. And they shall make a List of all the Persons voted for, and of the Number of Votes for each; which List they shall sign and certify, and transmit sealed to the Seat of the Government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate. The President of the Senate shall, in the Presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the Certificates, and the Votes shall then be counted. The Person having the greatest Number of Votes shall be the President, if such Number be a Majority of the whole Number of Electors appointed; and if there be more than one who have such Majority, and have an equal Number of Votes, then the House of Representatives shall immediately chuse by Ballot one of them for President; and if no Person have a Majority, then from the five highest on the List the said House shall in like Manner chuse the President. But in chusing the President, the Votes shall be taken by States, the Representatives from each State having one Vote; a quorum for this Purpose shall consist of a Member or Members from two thirds of the States, and a Majority of all the States shall be necessary to a Choice. In every Case, after the Choice of the President, the Person having the greatest Number of Votes of the Electors shall be the Vice President. But if there should remain two or more who have equal Votes, the Senate shall chuse from them by Ballot the Vice President.

The Congress may determine the Time of chusing the Electors, and the Day on which they shall give their Votes; which Day shall be the same throughout the United States.

No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.

In Case of the Removal of the President from Office, or of his Death, Resignation, or Inability to discharge the Powers and Duties of the said Office, the Same shall devolve on the Vice President, and the Congress may by Law provide for the Case of Removal, Death, Resignation or Inability, both of the President and Vice President, declaring what Officer shall then act as President, and such Officer shall act accordingly, until the Disability be removed, or a President shall be elected.

The President shall, at stated Times, receive for his Services, a Compensation, which shall neither be encreased nor diminished during the Period for which he shall have been elected, and he shall not receive within that Period any other Emolument from the United States, or any of them.

Before he enter on the Execution of his Office, he shall take the following Oath or Affirmation:--''I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.''

Section 2.

The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States; he may require the Opinion, in writing, of the principal Officer in each of the executive Departments, upon any Subject relating to the Duties of their respective Offices, and he shall have Power to Grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.

He shall have Power, by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, to make Treaties, provided two thirds of the Senators present concur; and he shall nominate, and by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, shall appoint Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, Judges of the supreme Court, and all other Officers of the United States, whose Appointments are not herein otherwise provided for, and which shall be established by Law: but the Congress may by Law vest the Appointment of such inferior Officers, as they think proper, in the President alone, in the Courts of Law, or in the Heads of Departments.

The President shall have Power to fill up all Vacancies that may happen during the Recess of the Senate, by granting Commissions which shall expire at the End of their next Session.

Section 3.

He shall from time to time give to the Congress Information on the State of the Union, and recommend to their Consideration such Measures as he shall judge necessary and expedient; he may, on extraordinary Occasions, convene both Houses, or either of them, and in Case of Disagreement between them, with Respect to the Time of Adjournment, he may adjourn them to such Time as he shall think proper; he shall receive Ambassadors and other public Ministers; he shall take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed, and shall Commission all the Officers of the United States.

Section 4.

The President, Vice President and all Civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.

Read section 2 very carefully.

LoneStarMadam wrote:

Read section 2 very carefully.

Okay, I did. Why don't you point out to me the exact section that you feel supports your argument.

Cycloptichorn

"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."

It means that the President is the commander in chief of the armed forces. He has the ultimate decision as to how the forces are used.

He does not, however, have the decsion as to whether we use them at all or not. That is not the Prez' responsibility or right, but rather Congress. And despite your claims, they do retain that right.

Therefore; defense of the country cannot be said to rest with the President. He is an implementer of tactics, but the strategy is decided in joint between the Executive and Legistlative branches.

Here's the president's oath of office - what he swears to do when he takes up the reigns:

Quote:

"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."

That's right, protect and defend the Constitution. That is his highest duty (and one which Bush has failed in miserably). The founding fathers correctly realized that the Constitution in many ways is America, and its defense is the highest priority - more than military actions, in fact.

You are simply incorrect if you claim that the President has either the right, or the responsibility, to decide when armed forces can or cannot be used. He is only granted that responsibility by Congress. The prez could not, for example, decide to attack Iran unilaterally; he would have to get approval from the Legistlative branch to do this.

Cycloptichorn

FreeDuck wrote:

McGentrix wrote:

Don't forget to blame the terrorists in your zeal to throw blame around Blatham. It's far too easy to just yell "It's Bush's fault!" and hide behind that manttra.

The terrorists made us invade Iraq?

Pretty much, yeah.

Zippo is correct of course.

Zippo is correct of course.

Bush should be made to answer for his lies, and his crimes.

McTag wrote:

Zippo is correct of course.

Bush should be made to answer for his lies, and his crimes.

What lies & more importantly, what crimes?

blatham wrote:

LoneStarMadam wrote:

Admittedly we have not fought this war with all of our might, as we should, IMO, however, WE HAVE NOT LOST THIS WAR. If we 'cut & run", not only will it be seen as another loss for America (Thanks John Murtha ) but those boys & girls in the burkas & baggy pants/dresses will follow our guys & gals home. You can count on that.

If if weren't for the recent election, notions such as these would be depressing. I've resisted repeating the "Bush Dead-ender" phrase, but goddamn it fits.

It does not seem to matter what consequences evolve from Bush policy and "leadership" or what information comes to light, faith remains secured with concrete blocks and even the slightest honest accountability denied.

After the 2004 election, Cheney said, re Iraq and all else, that the election provided the measure of accountability. There's some sense, though not much, to such a claim. But of course it no longer holds true for Bush dead-enders.

Blaming Murtha, blaming the press...what a chickenshit escape from honesty and integrity these are.

& the recent elections will change the policy in Iraq, how? George Bush is still C-n-C & he has the Constitutional duty to direct our military & protect this country the way he sees fit. Congress could cut the $$ off IF they are really serious. Congress has not "declared war" since WWII, they give the president (whoever happens to be in office) carte blanc to go full speed, then when that same congress deems that things aren't going well,(especially near an election), they screech & whine & USE our military for political gain. It's sickening. It's a shame that peple forget.

LoneStarMadam wrote:

McTag wrote:

Zippo is correct of course.

Bush should be made to answer for his lies, and his crimes.

What lies & more importantly, what crimes?

How Many Laws Has the Adminstration Broken? -- can be found (at least in part) in the 350 page Final Investigative Report of the House Judiciary Committee Democratic Staff (available here). Section I of the Report, dealing with "The Downing Street Minutes and Deception, Manipulation, Torture, Retribution and Coverups in the Iraq War," was released in December. Section II, addressing "Unlawful Domestic Surveillance and the Decline of Civil Liberties Under the Administration of George W. Bush," was released in June, while an addendum brings the investigation up to date.

A summary of the report is available here (pdf).

McTag wrote:

Zippo is correct of course.