There's no discussing religion and politics...

Religion and politics share something in common -- they are both beliefs. And beliefs are something one wants to be true, not something that is necessarily true. The believer wants to believe in a higher power and also in the demigods of politics. They open themselves up to profound dissapointments and will fight tooth and nail to rationalize their beliefs.

Those who get overbearing are usually control freaks but they'll be the last ones to admit it.

I know everyone knows the other very famous quote of Mencken about religion -- you know, the universe is a giant spinning wheel...

Also love Gore Vidal's observation:

The idea of a good society is something you do not need a religion and eternal punishment to buttress; you need religion if you are terrified of death.

And on politics:

If makes no difference who you vote for--the two parties are really one party representing four percent of the people.

MUST this take over EVERY thread?

Mock Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!

Sweetcomplication, I was gently slamming Craven, not you!~

Oh - sorry - that was directed at Bill W!

Craven, sorry about the friendship.

Quick thought -- you posted something a while back about your debating style. You were going to change it to avoid these kinds of conflicts. Since I was ready to reach through the screen and throttle you during a discussion on whether nod for yes/ shake for no had anything to do with breastfeeding, and have seen others' hands tremble with the urge to throttle you over any number of non-political, non-religious topics, I'm not sure if giving up those two topics will accomplish anything in particular.

There are those of us who get over our throttling urges and maintain affection for you, and those who don't. If you want to stop alienating those who are unable to maintain affection through "must-throttle-Craven" episodes, I think a complete personality transplant is in order. And that would make me sad, since you are so ineffably you.

effin' comes to mind, yeah...

These sirens begin to sound almost like ravens.....

LOL

dlowan, we love you so

If cravens were ravens, the sky would be black for 24/7

I too, hate to see a thinking person, and a gentleman cease to share his gifts. Especially on such a wonderful forum as this. Encountering fools, and sensitive people has often discouraged me, and caused me to make adjustments, as I grow older. I no longer take on these people tooth and nail, until I've went too far. I use humor, and "antenna", to avoid extreme results. The antenna, simply lets me know when it's time to cut my losses, and ease out graciously. I'm saying all this, hoping you are actually reading our replies, and perhaps, my two cents worth, will help dissuade you. A-a-and, in a final act of desperation, I will emulate the kid from "Shane":

...CRAVEN!.......CRAVEN!.......COME BACK CRAVEN!!!...

- He'll be back sooner than he thinks. Craven will spot a bit of logic he just can not overlook - his conscious will kill him until he responds to the wrong -

What happened Bill? Did the censor board clip your post?

Politics, religion, and wimmin are the three subjects that involves personal beliefs and committments. Our committment means we have invested our belief system into my political party, my religion, and my wife. I may make mistakes, but not in these three areas, and don't you dare tell me otherwise. If you try to point out the weakness of my beliefs, I will defend my belief to the death. Now, what were you saying about my religion? c.i.

(Gulp)...Er-uh...nothing sir.

Twas actually my brother, much more than friendship.



I was actually not gonna post anywhere but there are a few forums where I need to. Namely the tech forums. But yeah, I note that I've gotten into hot water there.

It's not just politics, it's politics plus site politics. I'll be discussing politics elsewhere where there are no complicating issues of site politics. People won't care about my opinion enough to get angry.



I don't think it's possible, I really dont. I tried but don't really want to be nice all the time, and I don't think I'll ever be patient. But it's not just something I can resolve on my own. Thing is, in places where site politics was not an issue people were far less likely to enter the "must trottle Craven" mode.

I think it underlines a rule I try to ignore. You can't own a large site and participate (there are exceptions of course, but this is not one of them).

So I made a one year resolution to try to keep that rule. I'll be on boards where this is less of an issue but I will try, for the next year, to follow a rule I believe in.

I've tried to not let your position of site ownership influence my posts, craven. I'm sorry to see you backing away.

Craven, although I haven't been here for very long, I bet you KNOW how sorry I am to see your decision to back away; and

you wrote:



Honey, I know it seems impossible to believe now, but age will take care of it, really. Just follow your heart for now and do what is consistent with your conscience, as I know you will and I support you in doing.

Yeah, it definitely adds complications that you are the site owner.

And very sorry about your brother. I think that was the genesis of the debate style thread, too. Agreed about impossibility of personality transplant (though that's a good thing in my eyes -- that kind of strength of personality is rare.) For what it's worth, the fact that you own the site was not a factor when I wanted to throttle you. I would've wanted to throttle you anywhere, in any circumstances.

Anyway, do what feels right, and thanks as always for the enormous amount of time and energy you put into making this site so cool.

What sozobe said -

Is it really a melting pot
if no one stirs the pot?

Somebody poke that man with a fork!

Nothing wrong with a little roiling of the pot as long as everyone wants to deal with principals, not personalities.

If you're wanting to avoid the encumbrance of site politics, you could always create a second account name for yourself and post under that for times when you want to be able to separate yourself from the site politics.

By shutting down, you are only hurting yourself and the people who care about you. The alternate account name will give you the freedom you seek and also provide opportunity for some practice in not posting in the "Craven style" in order to not out yourself.