Christain Ease...

Hi, Phoenix!

Wouldn't it be healthier to just do the imagery or meditate--rather than beg some non-entity to perform a miracle for you, though? Aren't people sort of putting themselves in a position of believing something sort of self-defeating?

That it might work is not caused by their praying. It's been shown by research that prayer has no effect.

But, forget it's a requirement for a minute, if you can, Raul.

Do you feel rejected by God when you pray to help someone you love--but God doesn't help them?

I was just curious if anyone would be able to give a convincing reason why people should pray--related to outcome.

Lash wrote:

Hi, Phoenix!

Wouldn't it be healthier to just do the imagery or meditate--rather than beg some non-entity to perform a miracle for you, though? Aren't people sort of putting themselves in a position of believing something sort of self-defeating?

Oh, absolutely. The big difference between praying and meditating is that with meditating a person is looking for strength within himself, while with praying the person is looking outside of himself.

IMO, meditation is a mature way of dealing with crisis, praying an immature method. But the fact remains that if a person believes in prayer, no matter how foolish the belief, it just might work for him!

Personally, I think that just about most aspects of religion is ultimately self-defeating, but even if a person is deluding himself, if the religion gives a person comfort, who am I to knock it?

Yes, that inner strength is referred to as faith. I'm sure it's immature to rely on our Creator; after all he's the one who is keeping us alive.

Raul-7 wrote:

Yes, that inner strength is referred to as faith. I'm sure it's immature to rely on our Creator; after all he's the one who is keeping us alive.

It is faith that produces the inner strength. Hope is the foundation of faith and faith provides the strength that we seek. The creator created us, but it up to us to keep ourselves alive. Especially our spiritual life.

hephzibah wrote:

So if I got in an accident and lose my sight would that then be God "unblessing" me? Why is it you all want to give God credit for all the good stuff but then deny Him any responsibility in anything looked at as "bad"?

No, everything is from God - good and bad. Did you not read the hadeeth I posted earlier? The good are blessings, the bad are to test your faith.

hephzibah wrote:

I think you are thinking a bit to hard about why I lost my faith. But let me clarify just a bit. I didn't "lose" anything. I willingly gave it up. Not out of anger. Not out of spite. But simply because I finally got a chance to see this whole "God" concept outside of the perception of being in desperate need of a savior.

So what are you saying, that you need a break from believeing in God?

hephzibah wrote:

You know it's funny Raul that you should make that comment about me trying to make my life easier. My life is anything but easy right now. However I don't blame a "God" for that. I blame the fact that I'm alive, that life happens, and so does death. I blame the fact that no matter how hard we try we just can't control everything. I blame the fact that sometimes I make bad choices and end up paying a price for that for a while. It's all part of life Raul. I don't need a "God" to tell me that. It also strikes me as odd that you would even say that to ME. I'm not the one looking for a free ride through life here Raul. You are.

True. But then again this is part of your decreed destiny. Often times things happen to you, not the other way around.

This being the case, a person of faith always shows deference to the events he encounters. Forgetting or ignoring the fact that all situations in life are ordained by God is the greatest harm one can ever do to oneself; bringing nothing but deep distress. Whether you acknowledges this fact or not, it does not change what is predestined for you; ultimately the course of all affairs is predetermined by fate.

Nothing occurs, either in the earth or in yourselves, without its being in a Book before We make it happen. That is something easy for Allah. (Surat al-Hadid: 22)

Like you said, **** happens!

This is outrageous!

Last night I was thinking of starting just this type of thread. <Twilight>

I dearly love my mother and sister--but I find it almost impossible to bear when someone has been told they have cancer, or their child is strung out on drugs or any number of things that happen in this life to everyone eventually, and I hear the phrases: "Well, just pray really hard" or "Believe a miracle"...something similar.

It is a nice thought. I know they mean well and most of the people in the church seem to take it well, but I just grit my teeth. I've prayed for people before and I consider it a loving thing, but to me --telling someone to pray in response to things like illnesses and stuff pisses me off.

If they pray hard enough--will they be healed? (that would be a no)

Does this intimate that abused children didn't pray quite hard enough for God to stop daddy from beating them? ....Others who prayed to ward off a rape or cancer or the death of their child or for food if they were hungry--are they poor pray-ers? Does God just not love them as much? Are the ones who's lives seem to move forward with less family illnesses and the like--are they just not on God's Top Ten Most Favorite list or something.

The whole thing smacks of some really mean, unfair racket.

It is completely illogical.

BTW Heph. I've been a member at five or so churches as my family moved across a few states years ago--and they were all like you've said here. They DO think if something goes wrong in your life--it's because "you aren't under the protection of God.... " They say people experiencing problems should take an inventory of what they're doing or "what God is getting your attention for"... The worst thing about this is the people who are horrible, but don't experience much tragedy. They think God is rewarding them for being perfect. This is how hideous religious fanatics are spawned.

Praying may or may not help with any particular situation. Usually, the prayer can find comfort or peace in the act of praying. Sometimes the prayer actually comes true. Sometimes it does not. Sometimes we pray for things that are totally reasonable to us, but are not what God had in mind.

I know people who could not have been more religious, righteous, faithful and full of good who have contracted terrible diseases and died. Why? We cannot know the answer. Was God punishing them? Not likely. Did God have a higher purpose for them? We don't know.

In some cases, the faith within the family has increased. In some cases it has waned. It is hard to blame God for things that we do not understand.

Do those of us who still possess a faith expect something different than someone who does not have faith? We shouldn't. For those of us who believe that God will once again send his son, we have a great expectation that we must await with patience. Are we ensured a place in eternity any more than those who we think may have less or little faith? The answer should be no.

Should God be blamed for a death or disease if we consume nothing but fast food and fatty things while smoking all our lives? We are still responsible for the things that we do. I know, I know, nobody wants to hear about free will. Much of what happens to us, however, is of our own doing.

Raul-7 wrote:

Yes, that inner strength is referred to as faith. I'm sure it's immature to rely on our Creator; after all he's the one who is keeping us alive.

It is faith that produces the inner strength. Hope is the foundation of faith and faith provides the strength that we seek. The creator created us, but it up to us to keep ourselves alive. Especially our spiritual life.

How do you account for people who pray for the strength to help them overcome. They do not expect miracles. They only want to receive the strength to overcome their adversity the best way they can. What to you find immature about that? The strength still comes from within. They just acquire it in a bit different way.