Capital Punishment --- For or Against?

cicerone imposter wrote:

Paraphrase all you want; it only makes you look more foolish - which in of itself is an oxymoron. Even a parrot repeats more accurately than you. sheesh!

The thing I've repeated, which you don't seem to be reading, is a request for your to clarify what you intended to say, if you feel I've misconstrued your intent.

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It's daunting for you, because you lack the understanding of analogies.

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Nobody misconstrues your paraphrasing; it's wrong.

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This post is not nor do I believe intended to be about abortion. If you want to argue about abortion why not do it on the intended venue.

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Mame - The problem that generates so much controversy is that no consensus exists in society over the point, between conception and birth, when personhood begins. Some believe human life begins when the female egg is fertilized by the male sperm, forming one cell. Others believe that life begins from the 14th day after conception, when nidation of the embryo has occurred and the primitive streak is present. There are others that believe life begins at the moment of birth and that the fetus does not have an independent moral status while in utero. Another opinion is that life begins 28 days after birth.

Halacha (Jewish law) does define when a fetus becomes a nefesh (person). "...a baby...becomes a full-fledged human being when the head emerges from the womb. Before then, the fetus is considered a 'partial life.' In the case of a "feet-first" delivery, it happens when most of the fetal body is outside the mother's body.

Historical Christianity has considered "ensoulment," the point at which the soul enters the body) as the time when abortions should normally be prohibited. Belief about the timing of this event has varied from the instant of fertilization of the ovum, to 90 days after conception, or later. There has been no consensus among historical Jewish sources about when ensoulment happens. It is regarded as "one of the 'secrets of God' that will be revealed only when the Messiah comes."

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Linkat, Good info. There are too many variations to "when life begins," and that alone creates controversy. Even those that believe in the same religion can't agree, so trying to find agreement between pro-lifers and pro-choice is impossible.

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Linkat wrote:

real life wrote:

This is exactly what is wrong with the pro-abortion argument.

What do their feelings have to do with it?

Either the unborn is, in fact, a living human being; or the unborn is not, in fact, a living human being.

Feelings are irrelevant in determining the personhood of the unborn.

What medical facts can you cite to prove beyond reasonable doubt that the unborn is NOT a living human being?

Would you accept a pro-capital punishment argument based on the feelings of one person?

'Well, I feel that he should die and the law should allow any individual who feels this way to execute him.'

What medical facts can you cite to prove beyond reasonable doubt that the unborn is a living human being?

That is why it is a moral issue - neither side can prove beyond a reasonable doubt. The majority who feel that a fetus is a human being stems from their religious beliefs, not any sort of medical or legal proof.

hi Linkat,

Well, let's be clear here.

Are you doubting that the unborn is living? (If you think the unborn is NOT living, can you tell me if you think the unborn is dead?)

Or

Are you doubting that the unborn is human? (If you think the unborn is NOT human, can you tell me what sort of organism you think the unborn is?)

I can provide proof for either. Let me know.

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Mame wrote:

At what point does it stop being a foetus and becomes a baby?

Why can it not be both?

My 'son' is also a 'boy'. He is a 'student' , as well as a 'child'.

All of these words describe him.

Previously he was a 'toddler' as well as a 'rugrat'. This was sometime after he was an 'infant'.

As he gets older, he will still be a 'child' but will also be a 'teenager', as well as still being a 'son'. One could reasonably describe him as a 'youth', but he is also a 'brother' and a 'sibling' in addition to everything else.

'Fetus' is simply a descriptive term of one stage of growth in the life of a 'baby' or a 'child'.

Before the unborn was a 'fetus' , there was a stage where the unborn is an 'embryo' -- another stage of growth.

Get it?

Being a 'fetus' doesn't mean that he/she is not a 'baby'.

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That's "your" definition. Other people has other definitions.

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This one good enough for you?

from http://merriamwebster.com/dictionary/fetus

Quote:

fetus
One entry found for fetus.
Main Entry: fe·tus
Pronunciation: 'fE-t&s
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Latin, act of bearing young, offspring; akin to Latin fetus newly delivered, fruitful -- more at FEMININE
: an unborn or unhatched vertebrate especially after attaining the basic structural plan of its kind; specifically : a developing human from usually two months after conception to birth -- compare EMBRYO 1b

A growing or developing human.

Or from http://www.askoxford.com

Quote:

fetus

/feetss/ (Brit. (in non-technical use) also foetus)

noun (pl. fetuses) an unborn or unhatched offspring of a mammal, in particular an unborn human more than eight weeks after conception.

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Saddam Hussein was found guilty and sentenced to Hang for Crimes Against Iraqis

What do you people who are against CP think of the sentence. Is it justified. Or IYO is capital punishment wrong under any circumstance??

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au1929 wrote:

Saddam Hussein was found guilty and sentenced to Hang for Crimes Against Iraqis

What do you people who are against CP think of the sentence. Is it justified. Or IYO is capital punishment wrong under any circumstance??

Got to have consistency. Can't change the rules with the emotion of a particular case. Is the sky cloudy today? Must I change my view, since it was formulated when it was sunny?

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I'll chime my personal opinion on Saddam; he's deserves CP.

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CI

The anti CP advocates are between a rock and a hard place. Even
those that believe Saddam to be deserving of CP I suggest will be hard pressed to admit it.

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au1929 wrote:

CI

The anti CP advocates are between a rock and a hard place. Even
those that believe Saddam to be deserving of CP I suggest will be hard pressed to admit it.

you are talking in riddles au

the people who want Saddam executed say so loud and clear.

I'm saying I'm against capital punishment for anyone for Hitler, Saddam or that Brit in Pakistan wrongly convicted of murder and on death row these last 18 years.

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au, I was a juror in a rape-murder trial that lasted three months some years ago. All of the circumstantial evidence proved beyond reasonable doubt that he was guilty. Even then, our jury had difficulty with finding him guilty; we almost had a hung jury, but the judge told us to go back to the jury room.

His brother who was a member of the prosecution, also begged us to save his brother from the death penalty. The defendants grandmother also told us about the time the defendant's step-mother burned his penis when he was 11 years old, and she begged for mercy from the death penalty.

He is now serving life in prison without the possibility of parole.

I believe each case has its merits for life or death. Our jury chose life.

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Steve 41oo wrote:

au1929 wrote:
CI

The anti CP advocates are between a rock and a hard place. Even
those that believe Saddam to be deserving of CP I suggest will be hard pressed to admit it.
you are talking in riddles au

the people who want Saddam executed say so loud and clear.

I'm saying I'm against capital punishment for anyone for Hitler, Saddam or that Brit in Pakistan wrongly convicted of murder and on death row these last 18 years.

Read what I said

Even those that believe Saddam to be deserving of CP I suggest will be hard pressed to admit it

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ok read it 3 or 4 times now

what do you mean

thought of expressing yourself in english?

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Steve 41oo wrote:

ok read it 3 or 4 times now

what do you mean

thought of expressing yourself in english?

I was under the impression that english was your native tongue. Now I find I was mistaken. Sorry.

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The outcome of Saddam's trial does not change my opinion on capital punishment.

I believe that Steve's English is just fine, but I will attempt to interpret. au1929 seems to be saying that some people, the ones who believe that Saddam should be killed, will have some difficulty. I'm not sure what he means -- difficulty admitting their opinion? difficulty with the concept of Saddam's sentence? Whatever, they will have difficulty with IT.

Repetition is the essence of clarity, no?

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Capital Punishment --- For or Against?

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