Capital Punishment --- For or Against?

I am against capital punishment or any punishment when wielded as vengence (such as hoping the guilty go to jail where they will receive inmate punishment- harrassment) yet I do see the need for capital punishment if it is in the interest of the public good such as protecting jail personel from having to deal with criminals that are a grave threat to them, other inmates and others because of their lack of conscience. There are other cases as well. Sometimes incarceration isn't enough.
For the most part I support putting guilty dangerous criminals away in an institution where they will never bother anyone else again.

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auroreII wrote:

I am against capital punishment or any punishment when wielded as vengence (such as hoping the guilty go to jail where they will receive inmate punishment- harrassment) yet I do see the need for capital punishment if it is in the interest of the public good such as protecting jail personel from having to deal with criminals that are a grave threat to them, other inmates and others because of their lack of conscience. There are other cases as well. Sometimes incarceration isn't enough.
For the most part I support putting guilty dangerous criminals away in an institution where they will never bother anyone else again.

Would a pine box suffice?

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dagmaraka wrote:

for myself, even if person is 100% guilty and i have no personal regard for his/her life, it still does not give me a right to take away his/her life. for, what does that make me? call itwhat you want, it's a murder, too. vendetta. not much different from the mob vendetta in principle, really.

Amen - it makes you the same as the murderer.

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real life wrote:

CalamityJane wrote:
Oh that's so interesting - real life is for the death penalty and he
cries bloody murder in the abortion threads. Aren't you a hypocrit,
real life?

Do you understand the difference between an innocent child who has not committed, nor been accused of, nor had opportunity nor means to commit any crime, was given no due process, had no right of appeal, had no public hearing , had no advocate to plead his case...................

....................... and one tried and convicted by a jury of his peers of a heinous crime, having had opportunity to speak in his own defense and present evidence in his own favor, given numerous opportunities for appeal , given legal representation at public expense if need be, and having exhausted all means of due process?

No, apparently you don't.

Do you believe in Thou Shall not Kill - apparantely not - granted the convicted criminal is horrible human being, but a human being nevertheless. If you believe in not killing a human life, then you should believe in not killing any human life, whether a horrible person or not.

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baddog1 wrote:

CalamityJane wrote:
Oh that's so interesting - real life is for the death penalty and he
cries bloody murder in the abortion threads. Aren't you a hypocrit,
real life?

Hi Jane:

Just wondering then - if a pro-abortionist is against CP - would that also be considered hypocritical?

It depends on what some one's thought is on an unborn baby...if some one feels that a fetus is not a human being (as this is a moral issues), then I see no hypocrisy.

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CalamityJane wrote:

Frankly baddog, I haven't met a pro-abortionist yet, the vast majority
is pro choice and there is a big difference. However, if a woman has had
an abortion and is against the death penalty, she has every right to do
so. Her private action is a) legal, b) only affects and effects her, and
c) an embryo is not a living being. So, my answer would be: NO, she
is not a hypocrit!

Do you mean not a human being? As an embryo is definately a living thing - heart beat, etc.

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Steve 41oo wrote:

I cant believe this debate still rages in the United States. All civilised societies have abandoned capital punishment long ago...but then perhaps the United States is not really civilised.

"Long ago" = about 48 years. Not a particularly significant piece of the long history of the nation that practiced the quartering and disembowelling of those who threatened the king/queen or the established religion a few centuries ago, and hanging for a wide variety of offensed until decades ago.. Was Britain "civilized" during the Elizabethan and Victorian Ages which it celebrates so much?

The French Revolution has long been the model for the murderous idealogues who plagued the world in the name of various "isms' each claiming the ability to perfect mankind while slaughtering individual men and women by the millions. By contrast the American revolution (which preceeded it) achieved a practical, working civil democracy, imperfect at every stage, but able to work out its economic life and social contradictions without the need for colonies and empire.

By Steve's standards the "civilization" of Western Europe is a very recent affair, one that developed only in the wake of WWII. If that is so, then they have America to thank for it.

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Would a pine box suffice?

I had this argument with my boss. I told him I was against capital punishment and favored life sentences. He responded by saying that he thought it was just as inhumane to keep someone locked up in a cell for years and years.
Guess whether capital punishment is right or wrong is just a matter of opinion.

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Quote:

Frankly baddog, I haven't met a pro-abortionist yet, the vast majority is pro choice and there is a big difference. However, if a woman has had an abortion and is against the death penalty, she has every right to do so. Her private action is a) legal, b) only affects and effects her, and
c) an embryo is not a living being. So, my answer would be: NO, she
is not a hypocrit!

The semantic-game of pro-abortionist/pro-choice is pointless on this thread and better served on one of the abortion-related threads.

In the meantime I invite you to view the photo's from a link that I posted over there (which by the way - none of the pro-choice/abortionist folks have responded to and/or about):

http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=79159&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=580

or directly to the photo's: http://www.fetal-surgery.com/fs-pics.htm

So - if a woman chooses to abort the clump of cells shown in the related-photo's (because "it's legal and only affects and effects her"); however is against CP - I would have to believe that she is hypocritical. That would be IMHO though. Confused

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This question cannot be answered by a simple "yes" or "no." I believe in capital punishment for some criminals like Tim McVeigh, but not for many others who are on death row today.

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Steve 41oo wrote:

I cant believe this debate still rages in the United States. All civilised societies have abandoned capital punishment long ago...but then perhaps the United States is not really civilised.

You bring your anti-Americanism with you to all threads, don't you Steve?

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CalamityJane wrote:

baddog1 wrote:
CalamityJane wrote:
Oh that's so interesting - real life is for the death penalty and he
cries bloody murder in the abortion threads. Aren't you a hypocrit,
real life?

Hi Jane:

Just wondering then - if a pro-abortionist is against CP - would that also be considered hypocritical?

Frankly baddog, I haven't met a pro-abortionist yet, the vast majority
is pro choice and there is a big difference. However, if a woman has had
an abortion and is against the death penalty, she has every right to do
so. Her private action is a) legal, b) only affects and effects her, and
c) an embryo is not a living being. So, my answer would be: NO, she
is not a hypocrit!

What's the difference between "pro-choice" and "pro-abortion"? None really. It's the same thing, but you demonstrate the semantic tricks of the pro-choice/abortion crowd.

We could also call it "pro-killing-innocent-unborn-babies," despite your claims otherwise. All you have done is rationalized that the baby is not human in order to justify your thinking on the issue (i.e., "If a woman wants to kill her baby, she ought to be able to do so, after all, it's her baby. And anyway, it's not a "baby," ... it's a "fetus" or an "embryo" or some other name that indicates it is not living.").

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what's the definition of "unborn baby?" Look who's talking about semantics. LOL

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auroreII wrote:

Would a pine box suffice?

I had this argument with my boss. I told him I was against capital punishment and favored life sentences. He responded by saying that he thought it was just as inhumane to keep someone locked up in a cell for years and years.
Guess whether capital punishment is right or wrong is just a matter of opinion.

I agree it is a matter of opinion - I simply believe in Thou shall not kill. Murder is wrong. I don't also think that keeping some one locked up is necessarily humane, however, society does need to protect itself. Also locking some one does give the opportunity for the person to repay society - as I suggest make them work - pay their basics and any remaining goes to pay back for the criminal action.

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Ticomaya wrote:

Steve 41oo wrote:
I cant believe this debate still rages in the United States. All civilised societies have abandoned capital punishment long ago...but then perhaps the United States is not really civilised.

You bring your anti-Americanism with you to all threads, don't you Steve?

er...maybe...

Actually its not anti americanism as such, just disapointment with what you could have been.

But exactly what that was supposed to be...I dont know anymore.

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cicerone imposter wrote:

what's the definition of "unborn baby?" Look who's talking about semantics. LOL

It's a baby that hasn't been born.

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Linkat wrote:

auroreII wrote:
Would a pine box suffice?

I had this argument with my boss. I told him I was against capital punishment and favored life sentences. He responded by saying that he thought it was just as inhumane to keep someone locked up in a cell for years and years.
Guess whether capital punishment is right or wrong is just a matter of opinion.

I agree it is a matter of opinion - I simply believe in Thou shall not kill. Murder is wrong. I don't also think that keeping some one locked up is necessarily humane, however, society does need to protect itself. Also locking some one does give the opportunity for the person to repay society - as I suggest make them work - pay their basics and any remaining goes to pay back for the criminal action.

Murder is wrong. Justified homicide is not.

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Steve 41oo wrote:

Ticomaya wrote:
Steve 41oo wrote:
I cant believe this debate still rages in the United States. All civilised societies have abandoned capital punishment long ago...but then perhaps the United States is not really civilised.

You bring your anti-Americanism with you to all threads, don't you Steve?
er...maybe...

Actually its not anti americanism as such, just disapointment with what you could have been.

But exactly what that was supposed to be...I dont know anymore.

With that kind of thinking, you could be mistaken for an American liberal, Steve.

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Ticomaya wrote:

Steve 41oo wrote:
Ticomaya wrote:
Steve 41oo wrote:
I cant believe this debate still rages in the United States. All civilised societies have abandoned capital punishment long ago...but then perhaps the United States is not really civilised.

You bring your anti-Americanism with you to all threads, don't you Steve?
er...maybe...

Actually its not anti americanism as such, just disapointment with what you could have been.

But exactly what that was supposed to be...I dont know anymore.

With that kind of thinking, you could be mistaken for an American liberal, Steve.

thanks...if thats appropriate

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Actually Tico you hit a chord there

am i anti American?

I would really like to know

perhaps you could start a thread

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Capital Punishment --- For or Against?

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