Sexual Harassment in the work place

Yes, I do think it's entirely possible that he'd can you for not giving in to his advances. It happens much too frequently. There's case law all over the place with such horror stories.

As I understand it-- and granted I'm no expert-- sexual harassment, much like rape, is about power and humiliation, not about sex. It stands to reason that if he is thwarted in his efforts to belittle you this way, that he might well exercise his power in another and terminate you.

Hey, hep, please don't talk about the time I hired you to work down by my swamp. I was feeling a little frisky that day and I certainly wasn't coming on to you like you thought I was.

Let's just leave that unfortunate incident behind us....

hephzibah wrote:

The thing that gets me here is how flippin scared I am to confront him. How completely uncomfortable and embarrassed I am by all this. And how angry I am that he would even put me in this position in the first place. It's just wrong, you don't treat people like that. I'll be direct with him tomorrow. If that doesn't work, and he doesn't fire me I'll go up the chain of command and hope for the best.

and your comment/question about if you have "EASY PREY" written on your forhead....


Well, yes hep, in a way you DO have "easy prey" written on you.

Through a combination of what society, family, friends, even your religion has taught you, you have been conditioned, as every woman has to one degree or another, to be frightened of confronting what you know is wrong because you will be "making waves" "upsetting the apple cart" "not being a lady" "being a bitch" and a thousand other bullshit things that have been drummed into us since birth.

This is EXACTLY what predetors are looking for in their prey. Sure, they may SEEM to be the nicest person in the world....this is so they can be offended them when you "accuse" them of being otherwise.

Why do you care if reporting him gets him in trouble? He certainly doesn't care about touching your body, and saying inappropriate things.....oh yea, that wouldn't be "nice"

I'm not saying that it's the womans entire fault they are prey...all of us are to one degree or another. An individual may not think of themselves as prey....but some predetor is sizing every single woman up as a potential victim, making each of us hunted to some extent.

The bottom line is what a woman reaction will be if a predetor makes his move...at that point we can allow ourselves to be his prey, or can turn around and take him on....head on. This can be verbally, physically, legally.

Be a Warrior hep, write WARRIOR on your forehead, and push your hair back so he will be sure to see it.

Don't be weak. Make him turn tail and retreat. You are in the right and nothing can take that from you.

Just possibly with a 67 year old extrovert there could be a generation gap here. He may think he's being funny.

From what you've written, you're safe when you're alone with him--he gets his kicks from dubious humor with an audience.

Next time he pulls the "girlfriend" nonsense, smile sweetly and yell, "Not any more. You've been much too cozy with other women!"

Repeat as necessary.

Yeah, well, the rest of us shouldn't have to deal with his crap just because he can't adjust.

Times change, so should he.

I'm guessing he wouldn't be caught dead tickling a male employee.

Don't deck him... but tread heavily on his instep.

DrewDad wrote:

Yeah, well, the rest of us shouldn't have to deal with his crap just because he can't adjust.

Times change, so should he.

You're right, I'm not reversing my Warrior position, but the more we move forward, the further "they" get left behind.

My hope is that some day they will be left so far behind any young lady will not hesitate to tell any man to stop his behavior.

You know Drew, sometimes I get so....I don't know, not mad, not frustrated some weird combination, with a little sad mixed in.
I don't know if young women, meaning teens, ever discuss this with men, but they do bring it up with other women.

There have been so many times I've been talking with a 17 to 19 year old female, who is somehow being harrassed. They will be really upset, sometimes to tears at how some man (sorry, don't mean to be male bashing, but that's how it is) keep behaving in such a way that makes them not only uncomfortable in a situation, but also makes them doubt their worth beyond being a silly plaything. Now mind you, some of these "girls" may not be the sharpest knife in the drawer, but that's no reason to objectify them.

However, when someone older, or more sure of themselves tells them they have the perfect right to stop this...they just don't.

In so many words they will say that they can't do that because then the man wouldn't think they were "nice". So, instead they put up with this ****.

Maybe decent men, when they see this happening, should #1 stand up for these young ladies and let the other guy know this isn't acceptable, or even more important, find an opportunity to have a conversation with the women.

Part of it that another woman saying it won't have the weight of a man saying it. I mean, they already think they have to accept stuff because "they're men"...if another man gave them the message that those others are losers and not real men, they might listen more.

Numerous times other men have tried to pull me into their harrassment. I just look at them like they're nuts.



I, also, don't get the wanting to be perceived as "nice" by someone who's treating you like ****.

Chai--

Your post reminded me of an incident at a party 40-odd years ago. We were all graduate students, all poor and like all parties of that time of my life there were many-many people and much cheap wine in a small apartment.

I was being subtly pawed by a macho stranger. The first time I wasn't sure. The second time I gave him the benefit of the doubt. The third I'm I roared, "Unhand me, you cad. Keep your paws to yourself."

Would you believe that some of the other men at the party were offended by my belligerent feminism? After all, to embarrass a guy like that....

The '60's were an interesting decade. Very interesting.

No one should feel uncomfortable at work - this is clearly a harassment case. If you feel uncomfortable talking to him about it, talk with the owner or his boss/whatever the chain of command is - if this person doesn't put an end to it, then you should take action. It is unfair for you to feel this way at work and the law stands behind you (plus a lot of people here too). Hopefully it is something he simply had gotten used to, considering his age and after being spoken to will back off. Just remember whatever his reasons - he is in the wrong. One other thing to note is legally no repercussions can result from you filing a harassment charge - the business cannot fire you or anything as a result of you bringing up charges so there should be no backfiring on you.

Heph--

Is there any reason you and your mother can't pack a picnic lunch (and a box of tissues) and drive to some pretty place where you can both indulge in the catharsis of tears?

"Being Strong" in a situation like yours shouldn't mean being emotionless.
You want to control your emotions for family convenience, not banish them.

No manner of sexual harassment in the work place is acceptable. Once you have made your position known that his advances are not acceptable, he should stop and desist. If he doesn't, go see an employment attorney or report it to the local district attorney.

Always keep a record of how he mistreats you.

Retaliation by firing is not acceptable practice; that's also against the law.

It is intersting how interested some people are in talking about sexual harrassment.

I have been sexually harrassed at work, and in other places as well, and many times, and I can't say it has done me all that much harm.

Could I claim damages if I weep and wail and wring my hands to my counsel's script.

Heph said:

"You know... when I saw the fear in his eyes I felt relief for the first time. I felt like maybe he understood the seriousness of this. Honestly speaking here, I think maybe I just need to go ahead and quit. I don't have the strength to fight this battle right now. I really don't. I'm just so torn because I really need this job. Not even for the money really. I just need to keep busy right now. It's the only way I can think of to stay strong for my family.

My mom has been "fronting" ever since this whole thing with my step-dad started. Trying to stay strong for him. She asked me to stay strong for both of them, because even she knows her "front" is not going to last much longer. Especially if we get bad news next Wednesday. I can't fall apart right now. I can't afford to for my family's sake. So I will work as much as I can so I have very little time left to sit and sulk. To let it all sink in, and with what time I have left I will go to the doctors appointments and spend time with my family. That's it. It's the only thing I can think of to stay strong. To just block it all out and keep moving."



Heph, I do not know about in the US, but since sexual harassment is so hard to prove, I know that mostly people here get away with it..., and even if successfully dealt with (usually by non court means here....there is a process, which is absolutely excruciating...I have seen it first hand at my old workplace, where an older male nurse terrorised a number of young female staff, to the point of their becoming ill) often the work place is so poisoned by it that people leave anyway.

There are people on this thread who know way more about what happens in the US than I do, so I may be quite wrong about how it all works out where you are,....but, since you are wanting to keep busy and occupied and unstressed as much as possible, had you considered looking for another job while this process plays itself out?

In case you

a. Find a job with great co workers and no crap

b. You feel in control and that you have options if you decide the process is more than you feel like dealing with at the moment, with everything else on your plate?

If you saw fear in his eyes, it may be that the problem is solved, and standing up to him and telling him that you find his behaviour inappropriate has been enough...as would usually be the case in a person without basic ill intent, who is acting from ignorance. Bloody well done!

My experience with people with poor boundaries about such stuff, though, is that they may err again simply because they genuinely have no concept of the effect of such behaviour, and need to be told again...(as is likely the case with the generational stuff that Noddy describes...though, frankly, I am not so sure that that really explains it sufficiently, since many much older fellas have fantastic behaviour in this regard, and lots of younger ones don't!)


I really sympathise with the feeling that you need the job! Back in the old days, when I was waitressing, I dealt with sexual harassment pretty damn directly generally, and effectively, but I saw many more vulnerable souls get really traumatised (eg one male waiter I worked with discovered that one of the young women had been sexually abused as a child, and he would approach her and whisper in her ear about how he would do the same......there were no sexual harassment laws back then, so a few of us had a little chat with him). But......at one point, I really needed a job very badly, and was in the middle of the crescendo of the study year, and could not BEAR to take the time to find another job, and so did not react with my usual assertion when the boss groped my breasts. Got fired anyway, for not acting like I enjoyed it. So it goes. (In pubs, at the time, any other job would have been likely to have had another such boss...it was kind of accepted in hotels at the time.)

Hell, it wasn't like I was working as a drinks waitress. The bar manager in that place used to hire single mums on a pension...tailoring their hours so they stayed within the limits of the extra they were able to earn....AND he was kindly, avuncular.......a darling.


Then....he would begin to slip the ones he fancied a few extra hours here and there...cash......

Then, one day, he would make his move. If they said no, he would threaten to put the extra hours they had worked down on paper....a few here and there, but they added up...oh and fire them. The odd extra hour would result in prosecution, or, more likely, docking their pensions....just when they had no job (and no reference). Most gave in. I tried telling them that HE would be in far greater trouble than them, but they were too frightened.

But...these were the good old days before sexual harassment laws. When people had no counsel to seek and nobody to wail and wring hands to.

Oh Heph.

With all you have before you right now, this is just one more thing eh?
I don't think it is fair to judge your normal ways of dealing with **** like this under these circumstances.
Holding it in, trying to be the brave soldier and plow through - it's flipping exhausting! Totally understand wanting to deal that way.
Totally understand the fear of not wanting to lose or upset the boat at that job - which I think is part of the reason this is getting to the point where ya want to just quit, but feel like you can't. Like, screwed if you and screwed if you don't kind of feeling.

Here is what I would do. Whether what I would do (and have done) is the best advice in the world or not, you can judge, but I'll share at least for commiseration.

Publicly humiliate him. Yup. Because that is exactly what he is doing to you when he tickles you and says those things in front of customers. He'll step down once he is the butt of the jokes, cause it won't be fun to go there anymore. If he's a real pig, he'll pick something else to harass you about or can you. If that is the case, then that is a toxic environment period.

Honestly, it will be more draining and exhausting to live with the stress of his crap than to face this head on. At least then you can feel in control of your own situation, which is something so important right now, when so much seems out of control.

There is a dirty old man who shows up at my work and plays this role. He used to be a big man there, still has clout with a lot of people. It pissed me off to see some of the girls letting him get away with the crap (yes, men should stand up, but women need to be strong and not use that as an excuse). They would say "oh he's nice. He just likes to make jokes, and he knows I wouldn't do anything." Bullshit. Meanwhile, some of them were bending backwards to cater to his whims in order to avoid confrontation when they 'bitched'.
I told him straight up "I don't get paid enough for your ****, and even if I did, I'll be damned if I'll stand here and allow you to publicly humilate me. If you have a problem with that, *Boss* is in the office. Go ahead and talk to him now. "
Funny thing is, though he avoided me for a while and mumbled to others for a while, he now is extra sweet to me. He sucks up. It's sickening.

Heph, whatever you choose ...I just hope your load gets lessened soon and you stay healthy.

Print this, and give it to your employer.


Sexual Harassment As Defined By State And Federal Statutes
And The Decisions Of State And Federal Courts.


Sexual harrassment, as defined by Statutes and Court decisions, means one of more of the following situations, in which the offensive acts are repeated after the target of the offensive acts has expressed her distaste for the acts and requested the offending person to stop -



Creating a hostile, unfriendly, stressful environment for the targeted person, with repeated incidents such as lewd jokes, and/or sexually suggestive photos and graphics displayed or sent to the victim, and/or name-calling of a sexually explicit or suggestive nature, and/or sexually suggestive touching of the targeted person, and/or "dirty tricks" against the employee who doesn't go along with the offensive acts.


Repeated requests for dates or sexual favors, and/or touching, grabbing or fondling the body of the targeted person, after she has made it clear to the harrasser that she wants no part of such requests or activities.


Stating, suggesting or implying that granting sexual favors will ease the path to promotion, and/or wage raises, and/or better treatment on the job.

I've another friend, high up in hospital administration, who many years ago and far away dated someone she was not allowed to by corporate rules... a salesman to her department. They married, and even then didn't tell people at work. It's been at least twenty years and they're still happy. Work in different places now.

What am I going on about... on the level of this clown with Hephzibah, this is genuine harassment. Some patterns are surely harassment, and some aren't, in my humble opinion.

In some cases, with the very innocent/ignorant, even flirting can be power wielding, and with others is just fuel for the day.

In Heph's situtation, the flirting is all about power.