End of the World Sacrifice?

I'm not saying I would join in, but it's a sacrifice I have to accept.

And mesquite, you forgot the complete Hadeeth which shows the whole account of what happened, read it carefully-

Any book.

A person's reality is not written in a book.

Raul-7 wrote:

I'm not saying I would join in, but it's a sacrifice I have to accept.

I guess your mom would feel proud to read this.(?)

Quote:

And mesquite, you forgot the complete Hadeeth which shows the whole account of what happened, read it carefully-

This is the part that sticks out for me-

"Then the Prophet ordered that the two sinners be stoned to death and, and they were stoned to death [. . .]"


Raul,
You don't have to interpret the words this way.
You don't even have to believe any of this.
You're envisioning yourself in proper attendence of your mother's public stoning, apparently not participating. "No thanks, Prophet, I'll sit this one out."


No ****.

Of course you will.

You know it's wrong to kill your mother, despite the words.

echi wrote:

Any book.

A person's reality is not written in a book.

Echi, we can't believe that you just said this.

R-7,

In the above situation, you would not kill your mother, yourself, but you would gladly allow her to be killed in your presence, by others.

Is this correct?

echi wrote:

R-7,

In the above situation, you would not kill your mother, yourself, but you would gladly allow her to be killed in your presence, by others.

Is this correct?

Why do you always pick and choose what to ask from statements? Why don't you respond to my second post?

Echi, this not just a 'book' - it is a guide to living a good life in order to attain the ultimate reward.

Raul-7 wrote:

echi wrote:

R-7,

In the above situation, you would not kill your mother, yourself, but you would gladly allow her to be killed in your presence, by others.

Is this correct?

Why do you always pick and choose what to ask from statements? Why don't you respond to my second post?

I like to go in order. But, whatever...

Raul-7 wrote:

Echi, this not just a 'book' - it is a guide to living a good life in order to attain the ultimate reward.

Living a good life, in your opinion, might include cutting off people's hands and possibly even tossing rocks at your mother's face and head until she stops spitting up blood.


I guess you are right; this is not "just a book".

echi wrote:

Raul-7 wrote:

echi wrote:

R-7,

In the above situation, you would not kill your mother, yourself, but you would gladly allow her to be killed in your presence, by others.

Is this correct?

Why do you always pick and choose what to ask from statements? Why don't you respond to my second post?

I like to go in order. But, whatever...

Raul-7 wrote:

Echi, this not just a 'book' - it is a guide to living a good life in order to attain the ultimate reward.

Living a good life, in your opinion, might include cutting off people's hands and possibly even tossing rocks at your mother's face and head until she stops spitting up blood.


I guess you are right; this is not "just a book".

Anyways, before any stoning takes place there must be either 4 witnesses or the person must confess. And God is all-Forgiving.

For example:

A man came to Allah's Apostle while he was in the mosque, and he called him, saying, "O Allah's Apostle! I have committed illegal sexual intercourse.'" The Prophet turned his face to the other side, but that man repeated his statement four times, and after he bore witness against himself four times, the Prophet called him, saying, "Are you mad?" The man said, "No." The Prophet said, "Are you married?" The man said, "Yes." Then the Prophet said, 'Take him away and stone him to death." Jabir bin 'Abdullah said: I was among the ones who participated in stoning him and we stoned him at the Musalla. When the stones troubled him, he fled, but we over took him at Al-Harra and stoned him to death.

I don't oppose cutting the hands off of criminals, it will decrease crime levels darastically. God sends these laws for a reason, He knows what We do not know. Stop judging untill you can see the truth.

Like forbidding fornication, why didn't you comment on the Hadith I posted?

"...If fornication should become widespread, you should realize that this has never happened without new diseases befalling the people which their forebears never suffered."

This evident in society, look how many unheard and uncurable STD's have arisen.

Oh... Well, that's different. I didn't know that.
You didn't say anything before about there being any witnesses.

Yes, but is it not better to educate the people?

echi wrote:

Oh... Well, that's different. I didn't know that.
You didn't say anything before about there being any witnesses.

There are strict conditions before any punishment can take place.

From the Quran 24:2-9

2. The woman and the man guilty of illegal sexual intercourse, flog each of them with a hundred stripes. Let not pity withhold you in their case, in a punishment prescribed by Allâh, if you believe in Allâh and the Last Day. And let a party of the believers witness their punishment. (This punishment is for unmarried persons guilty of the above crime but if married persons commit it, the punishment is to stone them to death, according to Allâh's Law).

3. The adulterer marries not but an adulteress or a Mushrikah and the adulteress none marries her except an adulterer or a Muskrik [and that means that the man who agrees to marry (have a sexual relation with) a Mushrikah (female polytheist, pagan or idolatress) or a prostitute, then surely he is either an adulterer, or a Mushrik (polytheist, pagan or idolater, etc.) And the woman who agrees to marry (have a sexual relation with) a Mushrik (polytheist, pagan or idolater) or an adulterer, then she is either a prostitute or a Mushrikah (female polytheist, pagan, or idolatress, etc.)]. Such a thing is forbidden to the believers (of Islâmic Monotheism).

4. And those who accuse chaste women, and produce not four witnesses, flog them with eighty stripes, and reject their testimony forever, they indeed are the Fâsiqûn (liars, rebellious, disobedient to Allâh).

5. Except those who repent thereafter and do righteous deeds, (for such) verily, Allâh is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

6. And for those who accuse their wives, but have no witnesses except themselves, let the testimony of one of them be four testimonies (i.e. testifies four times) by Allâh that he is one of those who speak the truth.

7. And the fifth (testimony) (should be) the invoking of the Curse of Allâh on him if he be of those who tell a lie (against her).

8. But it shall avert the punishment (of stoning to death) from her, if she bears witness four times by Allâh, that he (her husband) is telling a lie.

9. And the fifth (testimony) should be that the Wrath of Allâh be upon her if he (her husband) speaks the truth.

These are all the conditions that must be met, of course the witnesses must be mentally stable and mature.

And note, stoning is only to those who committed adultery while married, a single person is supposed to recieve 100 lashes and be exiled for a period of 1 year.

Quote:

Yes, but is it not better to educate the people?

Educate them about what? The negatives of fornication? It is already written that fornication is one of the 5 major sins. You see, Islamic law is designed to protect: religion, life, intellect, offspring and property of every single person. Islam has, in fact, adopted two courses for the preservation of these five indispensables: the first is through cultivating religious consciousness in the human soul and the awakening of human awareness through moral education; the second is by inflicting deterrent punishment, which is the basis of the Islamic criminal system.


"...Tell the believing men to lower their gaze (from looking at forbidden things), and protect their private parts (from illegal sexual acts, etc.). That is purer for them. Verily, Allah is All-Aware of what they do." (Quran 24:30)

Any more questions?

Raul-7 wrote:

echi wrote:

Oh... Well, that's different. I didn't know that.
You didn't say anything before about there being any witnesses.

There are strict conditions before any punishment can take place.

From the Quran 24:2-9

2. The woman and the man guilty of illegal sexual intercourse, flog each of them with a hundred stripes. Let not pity withhold you in their case, in a punishment prescribed by Allâh, if you believe in Allâh and the Last Day. And let a party of the believers witness their punishment. (This punishment is for unmarried persons guilty of the above crime but if married persons commit it, the punishment is to stone them to death, according to Allâh's Law).

3. The adulterer marries not but an adulteress or a Mushrikah and the adulteress none marries her except an adulterer or a Muskrik [and that means that the man who agrees to marry (have a sexual relation with) a Mushrikah (female polytheist, pagan or idolatress) or a prostitute, then surely he is either an adulterer, or a Mushrik (polytheist, pagan or idolater, etc.) And the woman who agrees to marry (have a sexual relation with) a Mushrik (polytheist, pagan or idolater) or an adulterer, then she is either a prostitute or a Mushrikah (female polytheist, pagan, or idolatress, etc.)]. Such a thing is forbidden to the believers (of Islâmic Monotheism).

4. And those who accuse chaste women, and produce not four witnesses, flog them with eighty stripes, and reject their testimony forever, they indeed are the Fâsiqûn (liars, rebellious, disobedient to Allâh).

5. Except those who repent thereafter and do righteous deeds, (for such) verily, Allâh is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

6. And for those who accuse their wives, but have no witnesses except themselves, let the testimony of one of them be four testimonies (i.e. testifies four times) by Allâh that he is one of those who speak the truth.

7. And the fifth (testimony) (should be) the invoking of the Curse of Allâh on him if he be of those who tell a lie (against her).

8. But it shall avert the punishment (of stoning to death) from her, if she bears witness four times by Allâh, that he (her husband) is telling a lie.

9. And the fifth (testimony) should be that the Wrath of Allâh be upon her if he (her husband) speaks the truth.

These are all the conditions that must be met, of course the witnesses must be mentally stable and mature.

And note, stoning is only to those who committed adultery while married, a single person is supposed to recieve 100 lashes and be exiled for a period of 1 year.

Quote:

Yes, but is it not better to educate the people?

Educate them about what? The negatives of fornication? It is already written that fornication is one of the 5 major sins. You see, Islamic law is designed to protect: religion, life, intellect, offspring and property of every single person. Islam has, in fact, adopted two courses for the preservation of these five indispensables: the first is through cultivating religious consciousness in the human soul and the awakening of human awareness through moral education; the second is by inflicting deterrent punishment, which is the basis of the Islamic criminal system.


"...Tell the believing men to lower their gaze (from looking at forbidden things), and protect their private parts (from illegal sexual acts, etc.). That is purer for them. Verily, Allah is All-Aware of what they do." (Quran 24:30)

Any more questions?

No more questions for you.

You should be asking me questions.

echi wrote:

No more questions for you.

You should be asking me questions.

OK, then you admit the Prophet was correct when he came out with that Hadith 1400 years ago? The one regarding fornication.

And do you really read everything I post?

Any book.

A person's reality is not written in a book.

echi wrote:

Any book.

A person's reality is not written in a book.

Whose reality is not written in a book?

Mindonfire wrote:

echi wrote:

Any book.

A person's reality is not written in a book.

Whose reality is not written in a book?

I'm not not licking toads.