End of the World Sacrifice?

How do you know all of these stories are not meant to be read as myths? After all, myths have been around as long as people, and the reasons for their existence are very easily explained.

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I hope Eve is pretty big too because I couldn't imagine my 85 foot body banging a 5 foot Eve!

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echi wrote:

How do you know all of these stories are not meant to be read as myths? After all, myths have been around as long as people, and the reasons for their existence are very easily explained.

Because the Prophet (PBUH) was illiterate, all his knowledge was given to him by Allah, either directly or via the Angel Gibrael. One time a Jewish man asked him a question, but he couldn't answer so he kept quiet, while some mocked him others were amazed at his honesty as he couldv'e made easily made anything up. He was known by everyone at the time as the 'ameen' which translates to 'the trustworthy' even by fellow Jewish and Christian companions.

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Raul-7 wrote:

echi wrote:
How do you know all of these stories are not meant to be read as myths? After all, myths have been around as long as people, and the reasons for their existence are very easily explained.

Because the Prophet (PBUH) was illiterate, all his knowledge was given to him by Allah, either directly or via the Angel Gibrael. One time a Jewish man asked him a question, but he couldn't answer so he kept quiet, while some mocked him others were amazed at his honesty as he couldv'e made easily made anything up. He was known by everyone at the time as the 'ameen' which translates to 'the trustworthy' even by fellow Jewish and Christian companions.

How can you be sure that he really said these things?

How can you be sure that the true meanings of his words were understood correctly?

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echi wrote:

How can you be sure that he really said these things?

How can you be sure that the true meanings of his words were understood correctly?

Hadith is really important, second only after the Quran. It reveals to Muslims a lot about the ways of the Prophet and even clarify's verses mentioned in the Quran.

Pasted from USC-MSA:

A hadith (pl. ahadith) is composed of two parts: the matn (text) and the isnad (chain of reporters). A text may seem to be logical and reasonable but it needs an authentic isnad with reliable reporters to be acceptable; 'Abdullah b. al-Mubarak (d. 181 AH), one of the illustrious teachers of Imam al-Bukhari, said, "The isnad is part of the religion: had it not been for the isnad, whoever wished to would have said whatever he liked."

Isnads are carefully scrutinized to see if the chain is possible (for example, making sure that all transmitters and transmittees were known to be alive and living in the same area at the time of transmission) and if the transmitters are reliable.

Usually ambigous words in hadeeth were clarified towards the end of the hadith itself. There are some examples of this.

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Quote:

Allah's Apostle said, "Both in this world and in the Hereafter, I am the nearest of all the people to Jesus, the son of Mary.

So Mohammed put himself almost equal to but clearly inferior to Jesus? This is the ONLY interpretation of the above statement.

Excellent. Christianity is superior to Islam. Quod erat demonstandum.

Thanks Raul, get down on your knees and repent in the name of Jesus the Christ.

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R7,

I don't know much about Islam, but you have sparked my interest. I'll do some research so that I can ask better questions. In the meantime. . .

Who first wrote down the Quran?

How much time passed from its first spoken transmission until it was recorded in written form?

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Raul-7 wrote:

Hadith is really important, second only after the Quran. It reveals to Muslims a lot about the ways of the Prophet and even clarify's verses mentioned in the Quran.

So right you are Raul. Without the hadith we might not know of the value of drinking camel urine or that Satan had the nasty habit of urinating in your ear if you overslept and missed the morning prayer. Hadith even explains the reason we should never urinate into a hole.

Bukhari:Volume7 Book71 Number 590
"The climate of Medina did not suit some people so the Prophet ordered
them to drink camel urine as a medicine."

Bukhari Volume 4, Book 54, Number 492:

Narrated 'Abdullah:
It was mentioned before the Prophet that there was a man who slept the night till morning (after sunrise). The Prophet said, "He is a man in whose ears (or ear) Satan had urinated."

Sunan Abu Dawud Volume 1 Chapter 14 Number 29.

(29) 'Abd Allah b. Sarjis reported: The Prophet (may peace be upon him) prohibited to urinate in a hole.
Qatadah (a narrator) was asked about the reason for the disapproval of urinating in a hole. He replied: It is said that these (holes) are the habitats of the jinn.

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echi wrote:

R7, I don't know much about Islam, but you have sparked my interest.

Really I shouldn't bother. The Flying Spaghetti Monster (may the sauce be upon him) has said "Better a thousand camels piss upon you than you believe a word from the mouth of Mohammed".

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echi wrote:

R7,

I don't know much about Islam, but you have sparked my interest. I'll do some research so that I can ask better questions. In the meantime. . .

Who first wrote down the Quran?

How much time passed from its first spoken transmission until it was recorded in written form?

Here's a brief history of how the Quran was compiled (taken from USC website)

During the life of the Prophet (saas) (570-632 CE)

* The Prophet (saas) used to recite the Qur'an before angel Jibreel (Gabriel) once every Ramadan, but he recited it twice (in the same order we have today) in the last Ramadan before his death. Jibreel also taught the Prophet (saas) the seven modes of recitation.
* Each verse received was recited by the Prophet, and its location relative to other verses and surahs was identified by him.
* The verses were written by scribes, selected by the Prophet, on any suitable object - the leaves of trees, pieces of wood, parchment or leather, flat stones, and shoulder blades. Scribes included Ali Ibn Abi Talib, Mu'awiyah Ibn Abi Sufyan, Ubey Ibn Ka'ab, Zayed Ibn Thabit.
* Some of the companions wrote the Qur'an for their own use.
* Several hundred companions memorized the Qur'an by heart.

During the caliphate of Abu Bakr (632-634 CE)

* Umar Ibn Al-Khattab urged Abu Bakr to preserve and compile the Qur'an. This was prompted after the battle of Yamamah, where heavy casualties were suffered among the reciters who memorized the Qur'an.
* Abu Bakr entrusted Zayed Ibn Thabit with the task of collecting the Qur'an. Zayed had been present during the last recitation of the Qur'an by the Prophet to Angel Jibreel (Gabriel).
* Zayed, with the help of the companions who memorized and wrote verses of the Qur'an, accomplished the task and handed Abu Bakr the first authenticated copy of the Qur'an. The copy was kept in the residence of Hafsah, daughter of Umar and wife of the Prophet.

During the caliphate of Uthman (644-656 CE)

* Uthman ordered Zayed Ibn Thabit, Abdullah Ibn Al Zubayr, Saeed Ibn Al-Aas, and Abdur-Rahman Ibn Harith Ibn Hisham to make perfect copies of the authenticated copy kept with Hafsa. This was due to the rapid expansion of the Islamic state and concern about differences in recitation.
* Copies were sent to various places in the Muslim world. The original copy was returned to Hafsa, and a copy was kept in Madinah.

Three stages of dotting and diacritization

* Dots were put as syntactical marks by Abu Al-Aswad Al Doaly, during the time of Mu'awiya Ibn Abi Sufian (661-680 CE).
* The letters were marked with different dotting by Nasr Ibn Asem and Hayy ibn Ya'amor, during the time of Abd Al-Malek Ibn Marawan (685-705 CE).
* A complete system of diacritical marks (damma, fataha, kasra) was invented by Al Khaleel Ibn Ahmad Al Faraheedy (d. 786 CE).

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Steve 41oo wrote:

Quote:
Allah's Apostle said, "Both in this world and in the Hereafter, I am the nearest of all the people to Jesus, the son of Mary.

So Mohammed put himself almost equal to but clearly inferior to Jesus? This is the ONLY interpretation of the above statement.

Excellent. Christianity is superior to Islam. Quod erat demonstandum.

Thanks Raul, get down on your knees and repent in the name of Jesus the Christ.

It's none of your business what I should do, you have no right to talk about which religion or which prophet is better than the other when you refuse to accept their single underlying message.

As for prophet Muhammad (PBUH), this just shows your ignorance and your biased hatred towards Islam. Even RexRed, who isn't a religous fanatic by your terms, can tell you by his unbiased terms how good a man he really was.

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This is why I am glad I'm a Buddhist. The Buddha stated that all people are equal to him. We all possess the Buddha nature and are all worthy of respect.

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NickFun wrote:

This is why I am glad I'm a Buddhist. The Buddha stated that all people are equal to him. We all possess the Buddha nature and are all worthy of respect.

There are various hadiths that are of such value.

Very common hadiths include-

"No man is a true believer unless he desires for his brother that he desires for himself."

Please not brother does not mean his biological brother, it means his fellow believer.

"When the bier of anyone passes by you, whether Jew, Christian, or Muslim, rise to your feet."

"The ink of the scholar is more precious than the blood of the martyr."

"He who wishes to enter the paradise at the best door must please his mother and father."

These are some of the most commonly used and heard hadiths.

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Quote:

Differences of opinion on intellectual issues, and - by extension - on juristic ones as well, are natural on account of the inherent disparities in intelligence, understanding, and analytic capacity with which people are created. If we accept that this statement is valid. Then we must also accept that differences of opinion between several Companions during the time of the Prophet and the rightly-guided Khulafaa' did occur, and these have been well documented. We would be doing a disservice to this religion if we denied this phenomenon. By the same token we do not regard an open discussion of these differences as detracting from the purity of the Islamic message or from the sincere intention of those Companions who had differences. Indeed we can say that in mentioning these differences openly we are in fact testifying to the objective reality and validity of the Islamic religion.

--taken from the USC website [emphasis added]

In admiting to these differences they appear to acknowledge the subjectivity inherrent in any interpretation. I see no reason to claim the opposite.

What do you think, R7?

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echi wrote:

Mindonfire wrote:
babyruth wrote:

OK, I can understand the dictionary and all caps. Adam is pompous and incredible, and maybe incredibly and improbably pompous, and he won't stay that way for long. But who is Adam? I don't understand the other quote about multiple dimensions and such going on at the same time to make a universe. All I know is that we are here on this earth and Adam pertained to this earth. I thought he died a long time ago, back in the days of Genesis. You seem to be referring to somebody/somebodies current, though, and it seems to be important. Somebody pompous is about to get a reality check, apparently. That's all I got.

(anybody got a candy bar? I need one for my brain to work? A baby ruth would be good, lol! note the forum name . . . )

LOL! Man's history always repeats itself. Time is cyclical. The Bible deals with current reality

Secondly, Man exists in multiple dimensions. Read the writings, they explain the dimensions. You are traveling in a stream.

Them's BIG ideas MOF-MAN. Any evidence? LOL!

Read

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echi wrote:

How do you know all of these stories are not meant to be read as myths? After all, myths have been around as long as people, and the reasons for their existence are very easily explained.

Is it false because it is a myth?

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Mindonfire wrote:

echi wrote:
How do you know all of these stories are not meant to be read as myths? After all, myths have been around as long as people, and the reasons for their existence are very easily explained.

Is it false because it is a myth?

Reading it as mythology does not make it true or false; it depends on the interpretation.

What is your interpretation?

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Mindonfire wrote:

Read

Okay.

Read what?

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Raul-7 wrote:

As for prophet Muhammad (PBUH), this just shows your ignorance and your biased hatred towards Islam.

I admit to being relatively ignorant about Islam, but what I know confirms my contempt, and the more I learn, the deeper it gets. Some ideas really are BAD, and Islam is one.

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further to Raul's post RexRed, can you tell me just how good a Christian Mohammed really was? Perhaps on a scale 1 -10.

I suspect Mohammed was a very bad Christian.

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End of the World Sacrifice?

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