End of the World Sacrifice?

Mindonfire wrote:

echi wrote:

Mindonfire wrote:

echi wrote:

Mindonfire,

I think you mean the idea of democracy is being exploited. In a real democracy the people would not be so easily fooled.

What does democracy have to do with intellect?

echi wrote:

Islam, it seems, is just another belief system that is not based on reason (like consumerism/materialism). That's a pretty serious flaw in the foundation.

Why do you say that?

Why do you ask? Do you disagree?

Oh yes. Everyone and everything has a reason. It may not be your reason, but it is reason nonetheless. Islam has a lot of reason. Because you are unable to look at it objectively, you will not see it. The world is subjective, therefore if you wish to understand it, you must become an objective observer. > Immolations (Pos. and Neg.)

The point is that a person might not be aware of the reason.

For what reason does a person believe a lie?

By the way, "What does democracy have to do with intellect?"

Quite a lot. Don't you agree?

echi wrote:

Mindonfire wrote:

echi wrote:

Mindonfire wrote:

echi wrote:

Mindonfire,

I think you mean the idea of democracy is being exploited. In a real democracy the people would not be so easily fooled.

What does democracy have to do with intellect?

echi wrote:

Islam, it seems, is just another belief system that is not based on reason (like consumerism/materialism). That's a pretty serious flaw in the foundation.

Why do you say that?

Why do you ask? Do you disagree?

Oh yes. Everyone and everything has a reason. It may not be your reason, but it is reason nonetheless. Islam has a lot of reason. Because you are unable to look at it objectively, you will not see it. The world is subjective, therefore if you wish to understand it, you must become an objective observer. > Immolations (Pos. and Neg.)

The point is that a person might not be aware of the reason.

So are you saying that you are not aware of the reason why Islam has a lot of reason?

echi wrote:

Mindonfire wrote:

echi wrote:

For what reason does a person believe a lie?

There are many reasons. Ignorance, Fear, Selfishness, to name a few.

By the way, "What does democracy have to do with intellect?"

Quite a lot. Don't you agree?

Judging from what has been presented, it is evidently not a lot.

I am not Muslim. It is not in my interest to study the details.

Democracy is an ideal.

echi wrote:

I am not Muslim. It is not in my interest to study the details.

And therein starts the problem. You live and occupy the same planet and yet you believe that it is not in your interest to know your neighbors. That is quite arrogant. And that is why you will continue to have problems with them.

echi wrote:

Democracy is an ideal.

Whose ideal? What makes it ideal? That's your subjective opinion. Some people believe Socialism is ideal.

You don't even know what you're talking about, before religion or Islam father's used to bury their daughters alive in shame, theft, adultery, cheating-goods (adding water to milk), oppression were widespread. This why the scriptures were sent down from God, to guide people from their ignorance into the right path.

We have only sent down the Book to you so that you can make clear to them the things about which they differ, and as a guidance and a mercy to people who believe. (Qur'an, 16:64)

More baseless assumptions. Don't you think a Muslim would want to learn about Islam much more than a non-Muslim? I am not being arrogant, at all. You are tripping all over your assumptions. Is this what you like to do to people?

I am not Muslim. It is not in my interest to study the details.

The sentence reads: "Democracy is an ideal."
Socialist leaders always claim democratic ideals.

echi wrote:

More baseless assumptions. Don't you think a Muslim would want to learn about Islam much more than a non-Muslim? I am not being arrogant, at all. You are tripping all over your assumptions. Is this what you like to do to people?

Baseless Assumptions? The foundation of our statement is your own statement. You state:

echi wrote:

I am not Muslim. It is not in my interest to study the details.

And we said that that was quite arrogant. Especially considering the fact that you all live on the same planet, and they control a great portion of the most vital resource which your civilization uses to function. If they and their resources were to disappear to day, do you know what would happen to your entire civilization? It is actually in your best interest to learn about them.

The sentence reads: "Democracy is an ideal."
Socialist leaders always claim democratic ideals.

Raul-7 wrote:

You don't even know what you're talking about, before religion or Islam father's used to bury their daughters alive in shame, theft, adultery, cheating-goods (adding water to milk), oppression were widespread. This why the scriptures were sent down from God, to guide people from their ignorance into the right path.

We have only sent down the Book to you so that you can make clear to them the things about which they differ, and as a guidance and a mercy to people who believe. (Qur'an, 16:64)

Who are you addressing?

echi wrote:

Raul-7 wrote:

You don't even know what you're talking about, before religion or Islam father's used to bury their daughters alive in shame, theft, adultery, cheating-goods (adding water to milk), oppression were widespread. This why the scriptures were sent down from God, to guide people from their ignorance into the right path.

We have only sent down the Book to you so that you can make clear to them the things about which they differ, and as a guidance and a mercy to people who believe. (Qur'an, 16:64)

Who are you addressing?

You!

You don't even know what you're talking about, before religion or Islam father's used to bury their daughters alive in shame, theft, adultery, cheating-goods (adding water to milk), oppression were widespread. This why the scriptures were sent down from God, to guide people from their ignorance into the right path.

We have only sent down the Book to you so that you can make clear to them the things about which they differ, and as a guidance and a mercy to people who believe. (Qur'an, 16:64)

Hence under sharia'a law people are stoned to death, beheaded, have limbs amputated and generally suffer the most barbaric and uncivilised punishments for behaviour which we in the tolerant and civilised West (well most of it anyway) dont even recognise as criminal.

I will only respect Islam when Islam respects the principle of equality under the law. Justice should be dispensed equally, regardless of gender, religion, or sexual orientation.

So how would you feel if your neighbor is sleeping with your wife?

Stoning to death is a cruel insane Islamic punishment given to people who are married but still voluntarily have sex outside marriage. This punishment was ordered by the "merciful" Prophet, who of course was the messenger of the "merciful" Allah.

Many hadith, including Sahih Bukhari give proof that Stoning was ordered and practiced by Muhammed, for example:

Volume 2, Book 23, Number 413:
Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar :
The Jew brought to the Prophet a man and a woman from amongst them who have committed (adultery) illegal sexual intercourse. He ordered both of them to be stoned (to death), near the place of offering the funeral prayers beside the mosque."

What happens in Stoning?
In stoning to death, the victims's hands are tied behind their backs and their bodies are put in a cloth sack. Then, this human "package" is buried in a hole, with only the victims heads showing above the ground. If its a woman, she is buried upto her shoulders. This is to give her an seemingly equal (but nonetheless impossible) chance to escape recognizing her lesser physical strength.
After the hapless individual has been secured in the hole, people start chanting "Allah hu Akbar" (meaning, God is great), and throw palm sized stones at the head of the victim from a certain distance (a circle is drawn).
The stones are thrown until the person dies or until he/she escapes out of the hole and crosses the circle. Escaping is impossible, given that the individual's hands are tied behind their backs and they are buried in a hole upto their necks or shoulders (in the case of males and females respectively).
Naturally, the procedure is extremely barbaric and bloody.

Or if someone steals your most prized positions? The laws are there for a reason and that is protect the civil rights of everyone. Cutting the burgular's hand off is to make him an example to everyone, both to other burgulars, potential burgulars and to the general public.

The laws are there for a reason and that is protect the civil rights of everyone. Cutting the burgular's hand off is to make him an example to everyone, both to other burgulars, potential burgulars and to the general public.

Raul-7 wrote:

The laws are there for a reason and that is protect the civil rights of everyone. Cutting the burgular's hand off is to make him an example to everyone, both to other burgulars, potential burgulars and to the general public.

R7,
What percentage of Muslims would you say support this type of law enforcement?

(Take a guess.)

Thanks, R7.
Do you really think it's the majority view? I find that quite surprising.
This is a good example of why it's a bad idea to base your reality on the words of a book. This is not good reasoning.


Imagine if your mother was unfaithful to your father, and so they stuck her in a hole and handed out rocks. You would join in, wouldn't you? You would be honored to throw stones at your mother's bloody face, wouldn't you? How glorious!

Thanks, R7.
Do you really think it's the majority view? I find that quite surprising.
This is a good example of why it's a bad idea to base your reality on the words of a book. This is not good reasoning.
Imagine if your mother was unfaithful to your father, and so they stuck her in a hole and handed out rocks. You would join in, wouldn't you? You would be honored to throw stones at your mother's bloody face, wouldn't you? How glorious!