When Does Life Begin?

neo: But as I told Chumly, folks don't hold funerals for wet dreams.

But I bet you do! LOL

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cicerone imposter wrote:

neo: But as I told Chumly, folks don't hold funerals for wet dreams.

But I bet you do! LOL

False!

The cost of tombstones is prohibitive.

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Burial at sea, pal.

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Lest we not forget that a seed is not a tree.

Neo - I recognize that you were talking about D&C abortions. I certainly can appriciate that you don't approve of a proceddure, but it's important to not resolve all abortions to this procedure. Most happen very early in pregnancy.

What of this senario, What if at any point after conception, including the second of conception, we where to induce labor. The unborn comes out, but is not cut or damaged in any way. We know that once "born" that it would most likely not be able to sustain itself without the mother, would this be abortion?

T
K
O

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cicerone imposter wrote:

Burial at sea, pal.

OK; but I'll need your help. You ring the bell each time I read off one of the names.

Rolling Eyes

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Diest TKO wrote:

Lest we not forget that a seed is not a tree.

Neo - I recognize that you were talking about D&C abortions. I certainly can appriciate that you don't approve of a proceddure, but it's important to not resolve all abortions to this procedure. Most happen very early in pregnancy.

What of this senario, What if at any point after conception, including the second of conception, we where to induce labor. The unborn comes out, but is not cut or damaged in any way. We know that once "born" that it would most likely not be able to sustain itself without the mother, would this be abortion?

T
K
O

The only reason I got into the D&C subject was an extension of my metaphor-ing about the 'choice' of the fetus. I'm really opposed to any form of abortion; but in the final analysis; it is between the mother and God. I have no dog in this fight, if you know what I mean.

Nevertheless, after having seen the effects of abortion on several mothers, close relatives and friends, I deplore the casual approach taken by many in the pro choice camp. The fetus is not a part of a woman's body and it is not a parasite.

Not one of my most articulate posts, but I hear an IPA calling.

Bye.

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Neo - What is your opinion about the senario I posted?

As for the choice of the fetus arguement, the rights of the fetus are held custody by the mother until birth. After birth, the rights are one by one become the custody of the child, until their 18th birthday, where they have full custody of all their rights.

As for asking a 18 year old fetus, we can do that. Well take a fetus and cryogenically prerve it for 18 years than ask as you have suggested. I'm fairly positive that it still would be deemed incompetant in any court.
Razz

Just giving yu a hard time.

T
K
O

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Diest: "... that it still would be deemed incompetent in any court."

If you bring "that" to court, they'll throw you in the loony bin. LOL

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Diest TKO wrote:

Neo - What is your opinion about the senario I posted?

As for the choice of the fetus arguement, the rights of the fetus are held custody by the mother until birth. After birth, the rights are one by one become the custody of the child, until their 18th birthday, where they have full custody of all their rights.

As for asking a 18 year old fetus, we can do that. Well take a fetus and cryogenically prerve it for 18 years than ask as you have suggested. I'm fairly positive that it still would be deemed incompetant in any court.
Just giving yu a hard time.

T
K
O

I think we should wait to induce labor until the unborn fetus (zygote, embryo, whatever) is viable. :wink:

And I would suggest that the expense of cryogenically freezing/thawing a fetus for 18 years would be well deferred by simply allowing the fetus to gestate, travel the birth canal, wear diapers, attend school, aggravate his/her parents as a teenager and show up in jeans. :wink: :wink:

And CI has not responded to my request for help with the funerals; all the while millions of nocturnal emissions have produced an incredible backlog. :wink: :wink: :wink:

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Okay, neo, what about the 13 million orphaned children? Do you have any concern for them, or for only the unborn?

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cicerone imposter wrote:

Okay, neo, what about the 13 million orphaned children? Do you have any concern for them, or for only the unborn?

Hey. You were the one who suggested the funerals for the unwanted sperm after I suggested it was ridiculous. Razz

And of course I have concern for abused and orphaned children. Your suggestion that my concern for the unborn indicates otherwise is a non sequitur.

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Yeah, there's no relationship of the 13 million orphaned children and your hypocrisy to protect the fetus at all costs. None what-so-ever. You're trying to protect something that has a natural mortality based on the health of the mother, the availability of food and medicine, and a good health care system. So which fetus are you trying to protect? Do you know which one will live or die on its own?

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cicerone imposter wrote:

Yeah, there's no relationship of the 13 million orphaned children and your hypocrisy to protect the fetus at all costs. None what-so-ever. You're trying to protect something that has a natural mortality based on the health of the mother, the availability of food and medicine, and a good health care system. So which fetus are you trying to protect? Do you know which one will live or die on its own?

Still a non sequitur. Millions of abused and neglected children are not abused and neglected by me or by you. They suffer mostly because of ignorance and greed.

Are you asserting they would have been better off if their parents had opted for abortion? Why not ask a few of them?

You still don't get it do you? I am not lobbying for legislation or fiat. All I am trying to do is state a case for the unborn. After that, it is between the parent and the parent's conscience.

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As for the case between the mother and her conscience, the American Phychological Association report that about 90% of women who choose to abort exibit any issues of remorse.

As for Choice and Regret, I posted links to a series that KPBS did on the abortion debate a few pages ago. I'll provide the links again.

Part 1 --> http://kpbs.org/tv/full_focus;id=8822
Part 2 --> http://kpbs.org/tv/full_focus;id=8862
Part 3 --> http://kpbs.org/tv/full_focus;id=8871

I think many on both sides can find the piece interesting.

As for the unwanted children of the world, I am not so quick to trivialize it's relation to the abortion topic.

The APA also has found that giving up a child for adoption has a greater phychological impact on the mother. What do you say to that?

Try the links
K
O

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IFeelFree wrote:

real life wrote:
So, abortion (killing the child) is the most compassionate thing you can think of?

Under some circumstances, it may be the best solution for all involved.

Except for the child who is dead.

You oppose capital punishment for convicted violent felons, but you support it for innocent victims.

Do you see a contradiction there?

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real life wrote:

cicerone imposter wrote:
How about the other way around; the child is deformed and/or with poor health prospects of living a meaningful quality of life.

................You claim that the abortion issue is all about the woman's rights, right? Let's see if that's true.

So , if an unborn child poses NO risk to the woman , and infringes on NONE of her rights, does this unborn child then have a right to life?

Or do you STILL want the option to kill him/her just because?

No answer for this, eh CI?

None from Eorl, either.

No surprise.

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Good to see you back in here, RL.

Apparently the pro death guys are afraid that if they admit to any of our positions, someone may conclude that the unborn are in fact human beings.

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Ofcoarse I have an answer: it's none of your business what the woman decides. Her decision doesn't affect you either way; only your sick mind.

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cicerone imposter wrote:

Ofcoarse I have an answer: it's none of your business what the woman decides. Her decision doesn't affect you either way; only your sick mind.

How coarse

Razz

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real life wrote:

You claim that the abortion issue is all about the woman's rights, right? Let's see if that's true.

So , if an unborn child poses NO risk to the woman , and infringes on NONE of her rights, does this unborn child then have a right to life?

Or do you STILL want the option to kill him/her just because?

real life wrote:

No answer for this, eh CI?

None from Eorl, either.

No surprise.

cicerone imposter wrote:

Ofcoarse I have an answer: it's none of your business what the woman decides. Her decision doesn't affect you either way; only your sick mind.

Why is it the woman's business to end the life of the unborn even if he/she poses 0% risk and impedes on NONE of her rights?

I knew you would not be able to address the question in a straightforward manner.

Shouting slogans, hurling childish insults and 'it's none of your business' is the best you can do?

Well, at least you are typical of the pro-abortion crowd. Definitely in the mainstream among your own.

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When Does Life Begin?

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